From tinkering with Epson printers to building factory robots from old parts they found on eBay, the pair built the first open-access circular fashion supply chain from scratch. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Sound Advice host Bex Burn-Callander sat down with Mart Drake-Knight to find out how this journey now has them running a high-tech printing business with customers such as Google, the BBC, and Joe Wicks. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Snap straight to the\u00a0main points\u00a0here:\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n
- How to turn sustainability into a small start-up opportunity <\/a><\/li>
- How to build a business around a real problem <\/a><\/li>
- Why innovating with technology means working one step at a time <\/a><\/li>
- How to perfect your supply chain relationships <\/a><\/li>
- How to build the right start-up team <\/a><\/li>
- How to manage the highs and lows of running a business<\/a><\/li>
- Inspired by this story of sustainability? <\/a><\/li>
- Frequently asked questions on small start-ups and sustainability<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/div>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Mart, thanks so much for joining me. Now, I read you started in a shed. So, what was your first goal? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What was the first thing you bought, and what was the first thing you did to get this business off the ground? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
We had \u00a3200. The first thing we did was buy business cards for \u00a3100, which was completely stupid. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I don\u2019t know why we did that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of the first things we learned was that everybody\u2019s doing it a certain way is part of why sustainability<\/a> is a problem. So, not having money or resources was helpful for us. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I am a big advocate of the zero-pound start-up. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
In sustainability, it\u2019s relevant because it makes you resourceful and innovative for materials and designing out waste. Increasing utilisation and making more of what you\u2019ve got is one of the most important things about the business of tomorrow <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we said, \u201cLet\u2019s see if we can make some T-shirts.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We had a website that we couldn\u2019t afford to pay for, so we learned to code through googling. We couldn\u2019t design T-shirts, as I\u2019m not very good at drawing, so we googled that as well. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We decided we would try and make products after they\u2019d been ordered, which was probably the first good idea that we had. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
How did you do that? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019ve seen notes about you taking an Epson printer and then trying to pimp it with extra parts. What was that all about? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight:\u00a0\u00a0<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
The thing about having not much money to spend is it forces you to get hands-on, understand how businesses work, where stuff comes from, and how you make clothes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But you\u2019re not interested in how businesses work so that you can copy them. You want to go and find out so you can change it and make a better one. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we looked at how T-shirts are usually made, and it\u2019s just completely insane. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You have screen printing. You cut a hole in a mesh and smoosh ink through it one colour at a time. There\u2019s lots of work to set up the presses and lots of waste, and it only makes sense to order hundreds of T-shirts at a time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
At this time, you have to make T-shirts through mass production, which the current system is built around. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We said, \u201cThis is stupid. You should be able to make it in full colour, in real time, one at a time, with no setup. You only make what people need when they need it, without any waste.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We didn\u2019t know it at the time, but it was quite a good idea because we don\u2019t utilise 40% of all clothing production. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Companies make clothes speculatively en masse, and 40% goes straight through, never sold, in the bin. It\u2019s crazy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
By designing out that waste, we saved the equivalent of 40%. We could see efficiency and a return, allowing us to invest in other things, like renewable energy and organic materials. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
To do that, we needed to build a new type of factory. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think there are five or six Teemill facilities now\u2014a network of factories, so it\u2019s serious. Each one\u2019s about the size of a football pitch\u2014two in the Isle of Wight, one in Europe, and two on the UK mainland. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
When we first started, we were just trying to make our own printing machines. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We used to cycle down the road to a guy. Every time we got an order, we\u2019d cycle down the road to use this machine. This other guy had to do one part, and then we\u2019d cycle back to our house to do this other bit. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s just mad, but I guess what it taught us was it is possible to make things in real time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It was an office printer with T-shirt inks in it, and we wrote the code to automate parts of it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Now, it\u2019s more advanced, and we\u2019ve invested in the technology. We can print two full-colour T-shirts in less than the time it takes to make a cup of tea. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What\u2019s different is that we only make what people need using technology when they need it. The thing that came out of the resource-constrained problem we had was that we needed to develop new types of technology to make producing clothes more efficient. Those efficiencies have driven the growth of the business. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Are you on home turf? Are you in the Isle of Wight right now? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
The west of the Isle of Wight, just down by the needles. It\u2019s a great place to work. The factory site I\u2019m in now is about a mile from Freshwater Bay, the Isle of Wight surf mecca. Lunch breaks, we can go to the beach and stuff. It\u2019s wicked. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
That is amazing, and you surf as well, so you get the ultimate work-life balance. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, surfing and working. There are a few decent WhatsApp groups if you want to get into surfing here. It\u2019s a nice place. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s the good thing about the internet. You can work somewhere like this if you want and grow a meaningful company because you can reach many people worldwide. You can base it wherever you are, and for us, this is home. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
How did the journey of Teemill start? Take me back to the origins of the business in 2009. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s always nice to talk about it because I think when you\u2019re busy growing your business<\/a>, we\u2019re bad at stopping and remembering these things. If we were doing it again, I\u2019d probably take more photos! <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We started in a garden shed on the east of the Isle of Wight, belonging to my mum and dad. I was 19, and my brother was 21. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It was 2009, so there were no jobs. We were naive, which was quite helpful. We looked at the clothing industry, thought there was a massive problem, and wanted to do something about it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Start with what you have, then let constraints guide smarter decisions.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to turn sustainability into a small start-up opportunity<\/strong> <\/h2>\n\n\n\n
You can turn sustainability into a business opportunity by identifying waste, inefficiency, or outdated processes and building a solution that is both environmentally and commercially beneficial. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
What made you think about the clothing industry, though? I remember being 19 or 20 and not focused on anything altruistic whatsoever. What focused your minds on that? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
In the clothing industry, around 60% of clothing<\/a> is made from plastic. Three out of five T-shirts bought today will be thrown away within a year<\/a>, and most of that is landfilled or incinerated. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You\u2019ve got a dump truck a second of what is plastic textile waste getting burned or buried, and that\u2019s completely unsustainable. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I don\u2019t know if it was altruism, but it came from a well-meaning place. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We asked ourselves, \u201cWhy don\u2019t we make clothes from natural materials instead of plastic? Use renewable energy instead of fossil fuels, and surely you can make clothes from old ones like recycling. Surely that can work.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We decided to have a go. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Probably the most important thing was that we just couldn\u2019t buy the products we wanted to see in the world. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We just thought, \u201cWhy don\u2019t we just make some?\u201d That\u2019s how we got started. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
With this circular economy, you wanted the T-shirts to come back when they weren\u2019t worn or wanted anymore. How did you do that there? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I know you said that you had an incentive with money off, but people can be lazy. How did you get over those barriers to get them back? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s a great question. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
First, we designed the product, so it made sense to us that we would get it back. That\u2019s the most important thing. If someone makes something with plastic (even recycled plastic), you can end up with plastic polluting and environmental problems. The reason why a lot of people don\u2019t recover that waste is that it\u2019s no good. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you design a product so you make it from a uniform material instead of a mixed material, where you\u2019re trying to get an egg out of an omelette, suddenly, you can look at that as a business owner and go, \u201cI want that back.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
When you want the product back, instead of feeling like you must take it back, you start taking it more seriously. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Many people say behaviour change is the problem, but I think it\u2019s pretty lazy to blame the consumer when they haven\u2019t got a choice about the type of places where products come from. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Then, we just incentivised it with money by saying we\u2019ll give you \u00a35 off your next order and made it easy for them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You scan a code inside the product, get some automated communications, scan it on your phone, which will tell you what to do, and then free post it back. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I guess what we banked on was that there\u2019s one thing that people never do: throw money in the bin. When people started seeing their wardrobe as money instead of trash, their behaviour changed instantly. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
This is gold. Take this nugget of gold. You know it\u2019s gold, and we know it\u2019s gold. No one throws gold away. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s funny because I wrote an article which is about that. \u201cWe\u2019re looking around at these mountains of waste, and we never realised the whole time they\u2019re mountains of gold.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Sustainability is a gold rush because there\u2019s so much waste everywhere in every industry. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
All you\u2019ve got to do is design it out, and your business is more efficient, more competitive, potentially more profitable, and will grow. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You talked about finding efficiencies in the business, which pays for cool stuff like renewable energy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Talk to me about this renewable energy journey, where you started and where you are now. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I studied renewables, such as wind turbine technology, and it was pretty frustrating it wasn\u2019t more popular. From an engineering point of view, why do we use coal? It doesn\u2019t make sense. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we like direct action. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s one of the things that people don\u2019t tell you about growing a business. If you\u2019ve got a business, it\u2019s successful, and you\u2019ve got money, you can do a lot. So we bought a load of solar panels and planted a million tons of carbon-free trees. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You can buy change, which means renewable energy powers Teemill. I think we\u2019re carbon neutral<\/a> and got the Carbon Trust<\/a> to study us. It will be certified soon. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Renewable energy is a bit more expensive per kilowatt, but we have technology and software that turns things in factories on and off, such as lights. If renewable is 15% more expensive, the trick is to see it as a connected system and find that 15% in efficiency savings from other places. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Honestly, it\u2019s not that hard and almost a slightly disappointing answer to your question. How did we solve the renewable energy problem? We did it because we wanted to. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s on-site solar, so the lights here are powered by our solar array. In some places, we have wholesale power purchased from companies like Good Energy. In India and Spain, there\u2019s solar and wind turbines as well out there. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s a wind turbine factory on the Isle of Wight, so there\u2019s the proper infrastructure. It\u2019s not cripplingly expensive and easy to do. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Solar panels are things you can contract someone to buy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The technology costs money, but not a lot of money. People love it. Businesses can sort out environmental issues directly by buying more renewables and fewer fossil fuels. It\u2019s a way that businesses can do something about sustainability issues directly. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
On that point about sustainability, I\u2019d like to get a complete picture because I think it might be inspiring for anyone who\u2019s starting a business and thinks, \u201cWhat are all the things I could do?\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You mentioned planting trees. You\u2019ve got the solar farm and buy renewable energy from a provider. You do the organic cotton and the circular economy, so the cotton gets remade into new T-shirts. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What else is in that mix? Did you say plastic recovery? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah. David Attenborough\u2019s got the answer because he is who we should all be listening to. I think some kid asked him, \u201cWhat should we do?\u201d And he goes, \u201cDon\u2019t waste.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you can design stuff out, that\u2019s the best thing you can do. In our business, designing out can feel quite hard. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s a difference between design and decoration. A lot of businesses, when they get their product, say, \u201cHere\u2019s my product. Here\u2019s some packaging. Here\u2019s some extra packaging. Here\u2019s some material. Here\u2019s a flyer. Here\u2019s this other thing.\u201d And they add and add and add and add. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Taking away is one of the best things you can do, and it\u2019s cost-effective not to spend money. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Something called swing tags is a relic of resale. You tie them onto the clothing to display product information\u2014got rid of those. Super annoying, and nobody likes them. Neck size labels\u2014got rid of them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You can design stuff out of your business, removing waste to save money. Waste is where sustainability<\/a> and the economy line up. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you have a Venn diagram, you\u2019ll overlap sustainability and economy, with waste in the middle. If you hunt waste, you can find many exciting opportunities. I think that\u2019s pretty much true for pretty much every business. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you save time and money, you can use that money to pay for stuff. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s true that plastic-free packaging, like paper packaging, is 10 times more expensive than single-use plastic. You can\u2019t change that because recycling is more expensive than plastic, but you can make the packing time much faster. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
This saves time and money, which we can use to buy more sustainable packaging. So go hunt waste. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The best green ideas often make the business leaner, not more complicated.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to build a business around a real problem<\/strong> <\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Build a business around a real problem by identifying an issue people genuinely want solved and designing your product, operations, and business model around solving it effectively. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You\u2019ve taken a traditional approach to the supply chain<\/a>, shaken it up, and come up with something new. How did you do that? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How did you create this new relationship with farmers? Bring in organic? What\u2019s the process? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
The hard thing was the most important: having a conscientious approach to technology. But the reason we did that is that we based the business on solving a problem. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think a lot of people forget that. When they say, \u201cI want to start a business<\/a> to make money,\u201d that\u2019s not a business. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Businesses should solve a problem for society, and profit is society\u2019s way of rewarding you for contributing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, we were trying to fix clothing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of the things we met with organic cotton and renewable energy was pushback for trying to do the right thing. It\u2019s cheaper to be bad, and it hurts to be good. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Indeed, that\u2019s the wrong way around. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What we needed to do was to go around the supply chain and find efficiencies. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of our highest costs was raw material and organic cotton. With the linear economy, we usually give the customer a T-shirt and then throw it in the bin when they\u2019re done. You grow some new stuff, and they pay for it again. It\u2019s stupid. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Why don\u2019t you give it back to me, where I\u2019ll chop it up and re-spin it? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We didn\u2019t know it at the time, but that\u2019s what people today call a circular economy. It\u2019s hard to do because there\u2019s a lot of engineering involved. There\u2019s lots of design because you need to design the product from the start to come back and be remade. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Every product we make is designed from the start to be used again. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We give our customers money off their next order in return for the material. We use that material, chop it up and make new products from that material. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Instead of creating waste, we create new products from it. That\u2019s the circular economy in action. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Fundamentally, it saves money because the customer gets money off their next order, and the environment doesn\u2019t have a whole lot of waste and resources ripped out of it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a win, win, win. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
What about your ambitions? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Because you talk about this journey, so where is Teemill going to go after this? What is the goal? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Is there an ultimate goal, or is it to keep going? What would you love to happen? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
If you start with a problem, you only stop if it\u2019s not a problem anymore. If I was appointed CEO of some charity, your goal is to fire yourself when you\u2019re not needed, as the root cause of all the problems that charity is trying to help is gone. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re not there yet. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Less than 1% of clothing worldwide is recycled back into clothing, so we haven\u2019t touched the sides. It\u2019s terrible that there\u2019s still a dump truck a second in a landfill. We\u2019re only on a few tonnes a month remade back into our stuff. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We need to scale it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What we\u2019re trying to do now is working internationally. We\u2019ve shared the tech on the supply side. We\u2019re sharing the free website builder and store tech for people who want to participate in the sales side. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re now giving the production technology to other factories who want to modernise, get into sustainability, and supply businesses in a circular way. So it\u2019s been quite fun. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re doing something in Prague that\u2019s a French joint venture thing, where we\u2019re giving them the software, technology, and capability to implement inside the EU. … <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think it\u2019s just trying to make sure that we live up to the challenge we set ourselves. Genuinely make Teemill somewhere good that works for our customers and has fantastic tech. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re building newsletters now. You can mail your whole database, and we\u2019ll be focusing on that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think from that, the growth will come. In our business, growth is linked to circularity and sustainability. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve got work to do. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And what about going beyond T-shirts? Because you could do lots of other things, right? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You teed me up there about something I\u2019m so excited about. Jigsaw puzzles! <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a great divide\u2014a marmite subject. Half the team think it\u2019s the best idea ever, and half of them think I\u2019m a total idiot because we built a miniature jigsaw factory. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You can use Teemill technology to print anything. It\u2019s real-time print-production-to-order technology. T-shirts we\u2019ve dealt with, but you can apply the tech to other stuff. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We do stickers and art prints, but yeah, I\u2019ve just done a Teemill jigsaw. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I have it in this building, and it\u2019s blowing minds. Watch out, jigsaw market with all your plastic and all your waste. We\u2019re coming for you. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I thought, \u201cJigsaws would be funny.\u201d Like your face on a jigsaw would be a sick Christmas present. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then I thought, \u201cI\u2019m sure I can build a fully automated jigsaw factory.\u201d Paper in, jigsaws out the other end. I designed it just for fun and thought, \u201cOh no, this is a stupid idea.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But I googled it and saw it was a \u00a3100 million market. Who\u2019s buying all the jigsaws? People are at home doing them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You can only have so many jigsaws in your home, and once you\u2019ve done the jigsaw a few times, is there still any desire to do the same jigsaw again? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a hobby. People buy jigsaws all the time. Anyway, it\u2019s led to waste. It\u2019s super-unsustainable, so why not? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
To answer your question, we\u2019re just looking at the tech. It\u2019s just a bit of fun, but it is a serious bit of fun. We\u2019re looking at the technology, saying, \u201cHow could we apply this to other industries to design out waste and give people a real choice about recyclable products that can make a difference?\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And if we can do that with our software and technology, why not? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Often, we do stuff to pilot it, and we\u2019re doing jigsaws to see what happens. Anyway, I\u2019m excited about it if nobody else is. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019ll be there. I\u2019ll be printing my whole family\u2019s faces on your jigsaws. … <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You\u2019ve got twin businesses in Teemill and Rapanui. Tell me about Rapanui. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
When we started, we built the brand Rapanui<\/a> because who doesn\u2019t want to build a clothing brand when they\u2019re 19? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Then we realised this might be a good thing that we\u2019ve built here. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We realised that we could fundamentally change things with the technology we\u2019ve got. We could make products from natural materials using renewables, designed to be remade without single-use plastic. And it was affordable. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We knew that we needed to scale Rapanui and were serious about making a difference. If you\u2019re serious about a big problem, you need a big solution. You want everyone in the world to wear Rapanui, yet we struggled to get everyone in Shanklin to wear Rapanui. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We needed to share Rapanui, so we put it on the internet, as you do, and gave it away for free on our platform, which is Teemill. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Teemill lets anybody build a free website and design their own T-shirts, all for free. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
When they get an order, our technology and factory systems print them in real time, ship them directly to the customer, and send the profit. There are about 10,000 brands from small to big, from BBC and the legend that is Joe Wicks down to just people like us. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What\u2019s different is that they can do what took us 10 years in 10 minutes and start circular from day one. That\u2019s how we\u2019re trying to scale our solution. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You said it\u2019s about having a problem to solve and not about making money, so it would make absolute sense to give this service away for free and let everyone else do it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you were thinking about profit margin and what\u2019s in it for me, it doesn\u2019t make so much sense. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But how did that feed the growth of the business? Is giving something away for free good for business? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s funny because it\u2019s counterintuitive. But a business profits because of the good that it does. The customer is better off first, and then they pay you. That\u2019s what\u2019s supposed to happen, but it\u2019s incredible how many businesses say, \u201cWell, we need to get paid, and then maybe we\u2019ll do something for the customer.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It reminds me of Dave Grohl. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
He said, \u201cIf you want to be a rich rock star, go to the garage and rock. And if you rock hard enough, eventually, you\u2019ll be rich. But if you want to be a rich rock star and you try and get rich, you\u2019ll never rock.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s kind of like that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s not \u201cwho cares if we make a profit?\u201d Because if we don\u2019t make a profit, we won\u2019t survive. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But the mission is why we\u2019re here and why we need to profit to survive, not the other way around. It just doesn\u2019t work. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
As long as the problem remains real, the business still has a reason to exist.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Why innovating with technology means working one step at a time<\/strong> <\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Technology innovation is more achievable when founders focus on solving one practical problem at a time and improve through continuous experimentation and iteration. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s fascinating because developing new technologies sounds quite terrifying, but what you\u2019ve explained is that you started creating new technology by tinkering in a shed with some old printers, which is a lot more accessible for people thinking about trying to tackle problems. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a lot easier to imagine that than where you are now, which is full-scale robotics and high-tech stuff. It all started with this small step. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, you\u2019re so right about that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Imagine if someone said to me, \u201cIf you want your business to succeed, you need a fundamentally different technology and completely different supply chain design.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I can\u2019t do that. I\u2019m 19 and from Shanklin. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I will say, though, that it\u2019s never been easier. We were pretty lucky because we were the first generation with high-speed internet, affordable laptops, and access to whatever knowledge you needed via Google. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I don\u2019t think people even 20 years before that had that, plus access to the economy in the sense that we can send stuff all around the world from the island. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are some great technologies we have, with the team of factories heavily automated. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are many robots in the factories at essential stages, such as automating parts of the packing process, making it affordable to design our single-use plastic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But the technology doesn\u2019t have to be from a laboratory or some multinational. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We built our robots with Raspberry Pis, which are like educational computers for kids. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
These can cost about \u00a320, and we developed this little clip thing that clips on to them, turning a little kid\u2019s computer into what is like an industrial robotics controller. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The people who build all our robots aren\u2019t formally trained technology graduates. Adam, who\u2019s easily our best robotics engineer and amazing, worked on a farm before working in our robotics team. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re enabling technologies. Tech doesn\u2019t do anything on its own. It\u2019s like a chainsaw sat in a corner. You need to pick it up and do something with it, and I don\u2019t think enough people are encouraged to have a go. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Am I right in thinking that even with the dyes you use, you\u2019ve looked at every element and reconfigured it so that it\u2019s less wasteful and impactful on the environment? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So what\u2019s different about the dye? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s a good question. Inks and dyes are the two sides of this, and it\u2019s about the chemistry. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Inks are an interesting problem. We wanted to use water-based inks because they sound better. Then you have a synthetic or polymer-based ink that dries with one-seventh of the energy, which is better. But then, if you can get that energy from renewables, it doesn\u2019t matter so much. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, you flip-flop. It\u2019s not like you get up in the morning and go, \u201cThere you go, done.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Some of these are problems for a reason, and it takes time to solve. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s a philosophy we use, which is called iterative development. It\u2019s not like you\u2019re ever just done. It\u2019s a constant improvement process. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
A lot of the ideas that we get are from Japanese car manufacturing books. One is called The Toyota Way<\/em>, which is excellent, and they\u2019ve even got specific words for things. There\u2019s the word kaizen\u201d, which means \u201cconstant improvement\u201d\u2014you do that with everything. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Water-based inks are compatible with the organic standard. We can do that affordably because we\u2019ve got renewable energy-powered driers, so it dries for free. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
In the dye house, it\u2019s water that\u2019s the problem because it\u2019s so wasteful to yank water out of a river, dye it, treat it, and then just mainly pour it back in the river. I think there\u2019s quite a lot of TV programmes about these blue rivers. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The solution is to recover the water, distil it like at school, and put it through sand. Then the wastewater\u2019s clean enough to drink. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think there\u2019s a video on our website of me drinking this distilled water. We\u2019re just reusing the water we\u2019ve got, which is cheaper. So again, reusing what you\u2019ve got removes waste, solves the sustainability problem, and saves you money, so your business can grow. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I remember you telling me that nothing can compete with reusability. There\u2019s absolutely nothing that\u2019s cheaper than reusing, which is why it should just be the first port of call for any entrepreneur. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s how nature works, right? Everything is reused. Waste from one process is fuel for the next. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Think about an old organic biodegradable T-shirt. If you designed it from natural materials and it\u2019s compatible with nature, it will be a house for a woodlouse or something. You\u2019re welcome, Mr. Woodlouse. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But seriously, take it in a business context. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Imagine we have got competing bicycle brands. I might say mine\u2019s going to be slightly cheaper. But if they\u2019re disposable bikes, you\u2019re pitching a bike, driving it to work, and throwing it in a bin. You buy another bike, you drive it back home, and you throw it in a bin. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Then I just come in and say, \u201cMy bike is 5% more expensive, but you don\u2019t need to throw it in the bin anymore. It gets reused and reused and reused. I\u2019m going to beat you.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We see that everywhere. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
With space rockets, SpaceX is dominating because of reusability, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about with waste. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you\u2019re in a business that makes stuff and your customer throws it away, someone in your sector is going to make the link and go, \u201cHang on, what they throw away is our raw material, plus they\u2019re our customer. We can reengage them by getting that stuff back.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
They\u2019ll do it, reactivate the customer, cut their materials cost, and win. What you want to do is make sure that person is you. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Have you seen that Teemill is a catalyst for change? These people come to you and build whole T-shirt brands on your technology. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Are they doing any cool stuff that\u2019s pushing things even further? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Are they doing anything inspirational where you say, \u201cWow, I didn\u2019t even think that was a way you could go with this\u201d? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s the best thing about it, and to be honest with you, kind of unexpected. That\u2019s why the iterative approach makes sense, because if you just take it one step at a time and keep trying to improve, all sorts of weird things happen. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Some of the brands built on Teemill are awesome. Or people like Joe Wicks. A lot of charities that used Teemill made millions of pounds for charity last year. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Joe Wicks did something with NHS charities, selling tens of thousands of T-shirts. He raised hundreds of thousands of pounds using Teemill. Incredible. We came into work, and it was, \u201cWhoa, who\u2019s Joe Wicks?\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s excellent when famous people use it because it feels like it\u2019s encouraging people to do something. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you\u2019re a young person, it\u2019s easy to look around and think big businesses are taking the biscuit a little bit. But BBC Earth, for example, switched all their mass production for Blue Planet<\/em> to Teemill. They have backed it and stuck by the circular economy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
They care, and that\u2019s encouraging. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then probably the highlight of my career was when the Chuckle Brothers built a Teemill store. You can\u2019t top that, can you? It\u2019s all downhill from here. That was the greatest ever. I almost said, \u201cThat\u2019s it, you can\u2019t get better than that.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What gets me and everyone in the team out of bed in the morning is when young people build brands and use them for issues they care about. What we want to do with the business now is enable technology. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s incredible seeing how people are doing using tech to do good things. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Have there been any times when you\u2019ve got it wrong? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Any massive mistakes that you had to fix? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Quite the opposite. The whole thing has been a complete disaster from start to finish, but that\u2019s growth. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s what no one tells you. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The whole thing is mistake after mistake after mistake. If you drew an X, Y graph, at the end is all of the stuff you\u2019ve learned and at the start is all the stuff you\u2019re going to learn. You\u2019re going to be wrong most of the time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
All sorts of stupid stuff. Starting with the business cards\u2014what were we thinking? I\u2019ve probably still got them. It\u2019s an internet business. What do you need business cards for? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then the place burnt down, so that was bad. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The business was just getting going, and we\u2019ve got this big factory. We were in a shed, then we were in a garage, and then we got a factory the size of maybe three or four tennis courts, sort of size. We felt we might have just about survived. We might not go bust. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then I was walking back from lunch, and there was a lot of smoke over the top of the town. \u201cOh, there\u2019s a fire. Let\u2019s go and rubberneck.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re walking down to figure out who\u2019s on fire. It was our building, and everyone was outside. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But we didn\u2019t start it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Next door, someone was welding next to a barrel of diesel, and the whole place went up. I think it was the biggest industry fire on the island in the last 100 years. It was huge\u2014seen from space. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Questions like \u201chow do we rebuild from this?\u201d That\u2019s the job every day because things will go wrong. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You\u2019ve got to be the person that figures out how to get over an ongoing series of obstacles. That is the way. That is the path. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We had insurance, but there were delays, so you need to call and work with your customers, explain why stuff will not arrive, and try to make lemons out of lemonade. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, we took a lot of pictures and made a joke about it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You know the film Apocalypse Now<\/em>? So we used \u201cApocalypse Cows\u201d and said, \u201cCan you please order this T-shirt, so we don\u2019t go bankrupt? We\u2019ll send it when we\u2019ve rebuilt.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And everyone said, \u201cOK.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You try and make some sales out of it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You find a way, and it\u2019s constantly non-stop. You\u2019ll make mistakes all the time with everything\u2014technology and the team. Sometimes you might say the wrong thing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The trick is confidence, which comes from ability, which comes from the things you\u2019ve learned, which comes from the mistakes you\u2019ve made. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You need to be good at going, \u201cOK, I\u2019m wrong. This is a mistake. What am I going to do about it?\u201d That\u2019s what you need to do every day. You do that for long enough. You get good. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Progress comes from testing, improving, and accepting that mistakes are part of the process.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to perfect your supply chain relationships<\/strong> <\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Build stronger supply chain relationships by working directly with suppliers, understanding how materials are produced, and designing products around real operational constraints. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
\nDownload your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Am I correct that you now have relationships with the farms that grow the cotton, so the supply chain is shorter even when you need more raw material? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You\u2019re not dealing with too many intermediaries. How did you create that direct relationship? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yes, it\u2019s an interesting question. The weird thing is that people think many sustainable business principles create more expense, but it\u2019s cheaper and better if you get it right. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What most people do is they buy from a supplier, who buys from an intermediary, who buys from a distributor, who buys from a wholesaler, who buys from someone on the ground. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Whereas if you go to the field and buy it from them, you could afford to pay them more and get your raw material for less, plus you can have conversations with them. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Going to an organic cotton farm is fantastic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s a farmer whose whole family has been growing cotton forever organically. There are non-organic farms a couple of miles down the road, as it\u2019s up to you what you do out there. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The amount of insect life is unbelievable. It\u2019s mostly cow poo and co-planting. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you plant different crops together, and the insects prefer the other ones, you get less cotton, but you can charge more for it, as the ground\u2019s clean. Then you can grow onions and other stuff in the dry season, <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You talk with the farmer, and they\u2019ll say whether they can do this or that and the problems they may have. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s incredible. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
As a designer, you don\u2019t realise how much responsibility you\u2019ve got until you do that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Linear supply chain sequences can cascade to cause all these problems for people worldwide and create a lot of waste, whereas if you go and ask them, they can tell you the sequences are a complete nightmare. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
As a designer, you\u2019ve got the power to stop a linear sequence. I don\u2019t know how designers and brands have been getting away with it for so long. Everyone\u2019s blaming customers, but often, they haven\u2019t got a choice. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Designers and brands need to buy differently, choosing to avoid linear consumption and waste, which they can do. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Getting out there as a designer, meeting these people and collaborating, is the best part of the job. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
That is so interesting. To make a fit-for-purpose product, you must connect to the raw material, customer, and whole production technique, to design the right thing. Nothing can happen in a silo. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
All the information must be in one place as a connected system. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
But before you build that, why are you making the product? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think people make products without working that out. They\u2019re saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know, to make money.\u201d That\u2019s not good enough. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There must be a reason for this thing to exist in that form, so why have you used that material? Why haven\u2019t you questioned it? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I suppose it\u2019s been easier for us because we knew why we were doing these things. It\u2019s incredible when you\u2019re going around meeting the people that do this stuff, listen to their expertise, and respond to it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
When we started with traceability, someone quoted what we were doing was game-changing. We just thought it was common sense, which is one reason why naivet\u00e9 is sometimes quite helpful. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve had great advice from people who\u2019ve been there and done it in our growth, but we benefited early on in having a complete, fresh look, as there is no fashion industry in the Isle of Wight. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s very little industry here, except for ice creams and Teemill now. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You want to be super-curious about how you make things because fundamentally, if you want your business to succeed, you need to do something different and better. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
That means changing things. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Better supplier relationships can make the whole business more connected and responsive.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Download your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to build the right start-up team<\/strong> <\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Build your start-up team by matching people to their strengths, values, and potential, rather than forcing fixed roles before the business understands where each person can contribute best. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Talk to me about the dynamic between you and your brother, Rob. You started this thing as kids and have built this business together. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How important has that trust and bond been? How have you worked all that with your dynamic? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m still a child. I haven\u2019t worked out what I\u2019m going to do when I grow up. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Well, it\u2019s good to work with your brother because there\u2019s a lot of stuff you don\u2019t need to work out. You know each other. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of the best things we did was divide our responsibilities. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
When we both did a bit of everything, we used to tread on each other\u2019s toes. One of the best things we did was say, \u201cYou do that, I\u2019ll do this.\u201d We learned to defer to each other on those things. It was a decision we made early and really helped. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Was there a natural delineation in that you both had skills and they were different, or did you have to say \u201cOK, you take this bit, and I\u2019ll take this bit\u201d? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
With us and what we\u2019ve learned about our team, it\u2019s essential to play to your strengths and not put someone in a position where it\u2019s not their preference, or they\u2019re not comfortable just because they\u2019ve got to do it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I suppose we\u2019re fortunate that we have slightly different characters. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Rob\u2019s good at business administration, finances, business, great with people and negotiating. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
He loves doing deals. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If he could get up, have his cornflakes, and then negotiate 1% off a consumable somewhere, he would be in heaven. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Whereas me, I don\u2019t want to worry about money. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I got this idea, and we need to build it. I won\u2019t sleep for three days, but I will build something if I\u2019ve got all the tools and equipment. I can\u2019t do the other stuff. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
That complements each other in an innovative applied engineering sustainability business because I can do the first bit, and he can do the last bit. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s especially true as the business grows. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We have this philosophy. I think it was in a book called Good to Great<\/em> by Jim Collins, where he said, \u201cGet people on the bus that you know are good eggs, have the same values as you, and believe in your mission.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Where they sit specifically is something that might change, and you\u2019ll find what they\u2019re great at. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think figuring that out as we went was smart. If we\u2019d have set it up and gone, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to do this, and you\u2019ve got to do that,\u201d we would have probably fallen out and not be doing this now. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Interestingly, we spend a lot more time on recruitment<\/a>, which is a good idea, but it\u2019s slow, as it might take months to find the right character. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We prioritise values, attitudes, and potential. You can teach the rest. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s a certain number of technical tests in engineering, but it\u2019s mostly about problem-solving: how much of a self-learner or determined you are, and whether you\u2019re a problem-solver. There are multiple interviews, but they\u2019re mostly built around establishing people\u2019s intent, values, and alignment with the way we work. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And so, if you\u2019re a little bit weird, don\u2019t wear the right clothes, and haven\u2019t got any experience, we don\u2019t care. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
But if you\u2019re respectful and want to learn, good with empathy and capable of picking yourself up with a bit of grit, saying, \u201cOK, I\u2019m wrong, but I\u2019m going to try again\u201d, that\u2019s more important to us. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s an interesting part of the journey. It\u2019s kind of weird. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
You go from zero to 10 people, and then you\u2019ve got to learn the whole thing all over again when you go from 10 to 100. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I love you prize things like empathy, but I think one of the great unanswered questions in business is, \u201cHow on Earth do you sit in front of someone and know whether they have that?” <\/p>\n\n\n\n
What question do you ask to find that out? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I don\u2019t know. It depends on different roles, but I think everybody has their way of doing it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think what matters is the outcome. Are you getting that person in because you think they can help you hit your target in the short term? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Or are you doing that because you want to help brands on waste, and you think this person will be a long-term asset on that mission, although it will take six months\u2019 investment? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you know your mind, you can find the right questions. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Hire for alignment and adaptability, then let people grow into the work.<\/strong> <\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to\u00a0manage the highs and lows of\u00a0running a\u00a0business<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Founders\u00a0manage the highs and lows of running a business by keeping perspective, learning from setbacks, and relying on supportive people around\u00a0them\u00a0during difficult periods.\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Do you get tired? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Hearing you talking about having to constantly wake up every day and think, \u201cHow can I make things better?\u201d … Where do you get your drive and energy? Do you ever want to give it up? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a good question. I think anybody who said no would be lying. You\u2019re only human. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of the hardest things is to disconnect the business from yourself. Many founders will probably say, certainly in the first 10 years, especially if you care about stuff, you\u2019ll take things personally. I certainly do. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I find it very hard if someone criticises the business or writes some horrible review, and they know what they\u2019re doing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
When people do that, they\u2019re doing it with the intent to cause harm for whatever reason it might be. They might be frustrated or trying to write some article to get some traffic to benefit from\u2014whatever. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It can be upsetting and tiring. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think progress is the reward, though. When you see progress and momentum, that brings encouragement. I think having people around you helps. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Through our situation on the island, you don\u2019t have a university or anything like that, so many of our team were vocationally trained and have been with us a long time. That was one of the best things that we did. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Half of the management team used to be apprentices or trainees. You\u2019ve got people who appreciate and want to be in the business, and so I think it\u2019s kind of like you\u2019re working for them. If you have a bad day, those people can cheer you up. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are some things you just can never get good at, and you need other people around. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m rubbish at stuff like the spreadsheets. I can do accounting, but I don\u2019t like it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
With enough experience, those highs and lows become manageable. You\u2019ve seen it all before\u2014it\u2019s never that bad. We\u2019ve had worse\u2014the business burnt down. Come on. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah. Keeps a perspective on things when you\u2019ve seen your business burn to the ground. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mart Drake-Knight: <\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And the other way round. If you have a big month, OK, but next month it could burn down, so let\u2019s not get too excited. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think things settle. There\u2019s only one way to get to that point\u2014time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Inspired by this story of sustainability? <\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to Sound Advice on Apple Podcasts<\/a> here. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We are also on Spotify <\/a>and anywhere else you get your podcasts. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
We would love for you to join our community to share your insights and stories, take your recommendations for guests, and even ask some questions you would like us to ask in the future. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Let us know on Twitter @SageUK<\/a> using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram @SageOfficial, or in the comments below, and we will get back to you. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
\nDownload your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\nFrequently\u00a0asked\u00a0questions on small\u00a0start-ups and sustainability<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
\u00a0<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How long does it take to build a sustainable start-up?\u00a0<\/strong>Building a sustainable start-up can take years of experimentation, iteration, and gradual scaling.\u00a0Teemill\u00a0began in a garden shed and evolved over time through continuous testing,\u00a0learning,\u00a0and reinvestment in\u00a0new technology.\u00a0<\/p> <\/div>
Do you need technical experience to build innovative products?\u00a0<\/strong>Not necessarily. Many founders learn technical skills as they build, using online resources,\u00a0experimentation,\u00a0and practical problem-solving to develop products and systems over time.\u00a0<\/p> <\/div>
Why is making products to order more sustainable?\u00a0<\/strong>Producing items only after customers place orders helps reduce overproduction, unused stock,\u00a0and material waste. This approach can also lower upfront costs for small businesses.\u00a0<\/p> <\/div>
What is a circular business model?\u00a0<\/strong>A circular business model is designed to reuse, recover,\u00a0or remake products and materials instead of treating them as waste after use. The goal is to keep materials in circulation for as long as possible.\u00a0<\/p> <\/div>
Can small businesses compete with larger companies on sustainability?\u00a0<\/strong>Small businesses can often adapt faster than larger organisations because they can redesign processes, test\u00a0new ideas,\u00a0and build sustainable practices into the business from the beginning.\u00a0<\/p> <\/div> <\/div>\n\n\n\n
\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSustainability Hub<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t\t\tExplore how your small business can create a robust sustainability strategy, save money, and attract more customers by visiting the Sustainability Hub.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-gb\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/10\/2021\/04\/iStock-495467994-1-1-1215x810.jpg\")
\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSubscribe to the Sage Advice newsletter<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t\t\tJoin more than 500,000 UK readers and get the best business admin strategies and tactics, as well as actionable advice to help your company thrive, in your inbox every month.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-gb\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/10\/2022\/04\/GettyImages-1073797282-1-1440x810.jpg\")
\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\t \n\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tBrowse more topics from this article<\/h3>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tBusiness finances\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCircular economy\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tHow to start a business\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tStartup stories\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSustainability\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n
\n\t\n\t \n\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\tExplore more wisdom<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t ![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-gb\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/10\/2022\/04\/GettyImages-740534235-1440x810.jpg\")
\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\t<\/div>\n\n\t\n\t\t\t\t\tRecommended<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t - \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tCircular economy\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
- How to build a business around a real problem <\/a><\/li>