Reshifting the focus from managing money to managing people<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So, let\u2019s dive straight in. What made you start First Wealth in 2008?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Why had you become disillusioned with the industry?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I suppose there were two factors, two things probably going on there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There was one from a personal point of view, I was doing this job on my own with just one support, then the financial crisis hit. I think maybe like a lot of people, I had no idea what was going on at that time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think generally, previous crises, post-crises that happen after a financial crisis, you always know maybe what the outcomes needed to be and what was going on at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
At that point in time, I think everyone had no idea what was going on, and it was a really scary place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So from a personal point of view, I really wanted to share this with someone else. So I reached out to Anthony, and he was back from travelling and was keen to start up a business together, so that worked well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But also from a business point of view, I\u2019d grown a little bit disillusioned with the way in which we were doing things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We were just simply investing people\u2019s money, and the financial crisis brought to light that if I was purely relying on the managing of money, that was out of my control. I didn\u2019t cause the financial crisis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There was nothing I could\u2019ve done to predict that or to hedge against that, and therefore I didn\u2019t want to be running a business where there were all these external factors which were completely out of my control.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So when I was thinking about it, when I was thinking about the relationships and the conversations I had with clients, it was like, \u201cRight, what am I actually managing? Am I managing money or am I managing people?\u201d And actually, what would I rather be doing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And the light bulb moment came to me when I thought, I\u2019m really good at managing people and helping them achieve their goals, dreams, and wishes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Actually that\u2019s a far more fulfilling thing to be able to do and actually, it\u2019s in my control rather than just simply focusing on managing the money, hints why then First Wealth was born.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Anthony and I set it up together with this whole idea of where, and it sounds really obvious, so it sounds like why isn\u2019t everyone doing this? <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Where we thought we\u2019re going to focus on the people rather than the money.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
By focusing on people rather than money, it\u2019s almost like you\u2019re a financial planner mixed with a business coach in many ways, because you really work with entrepreneurs, CEOs, high net worth individuals to take them on that journey, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So the way in which we describe it, I think you\u2019re right, Kate, is that financial planner\/financial coach, is around helping people see their financial future with extreme clarity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s about helping them achieve the one financial goal, which I think every single person in the world has, and that\u2019s quite simply to have enough money to live the lifestyle you want without fear of money running out no matter what happens.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think what the variable in that is lifestyle, the cost of your lifestyle or the lifestyle you want is different to mine. It\u2019s different to my family, to my friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So therefore, the job\u2019s got to be about really trying to understand what is it that individual wants or that family wants as that life before, quite frankly, we\u2019re no longer around in order to enjoy it and do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Reinventing your business to give it more purpose<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
See, you started out with all these good intentions to really be a very different financial planning business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But I know that a few years into running First Wealth, you felt like things had just gone back to business as usual.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What steps did you take at that time to really reinvent the business?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So, I think that that\u2019s exactly right. So when we set up First Wealth, we had a big cover on City Wide Magazine, and we launched our new offices in central London\u2014we were going to be revolutionising financial planning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think maybe like a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners, whilst you can talk that big talk, et cetera, you fall back really quickly into the day-to-day running of your business and the day-to-day running of your business in order to succeed to make money and to pay the bills and to do all of this stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So therefore, whilst we thought we\u2019re going to combine a business which does financial planning, investment management, and tax planning, when we looked at this a couple of years in, we were like, \u201cAll we\u2019re really doing is the same old thing that we were doing previously. We might\u2019ve dressed it up and badged it up in a different way.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And that\u2019s because we were just guilty of falling into working a million miles an hour, to working all hours that we had.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We would take on any single client. We were just trying to grow in business, and the problem was the business was good, the numbers were great, we were growing pretty quickly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So therefore you\u2019re like, \u201cWell, this is all working here, and we\u2019re growing a business, why should we do it any differently?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But it got to two or three years and Anthony, and I looked at each other. One, we were exhausted. Two, we weren\u2019t really enjoying what we were doing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And three, we felt that we probably weren\u2019t helping our clients as much as we could be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Time and time again when we\u2019re dealing with clients, they\u2019re coming to us, probably thinking that they\u2019re coming to me saying, \u201cRight, Robert, I\u2019ve got this issue with my pensions. What do I do? I want to get a better return on my money,\u201d et cetera.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But actually, the real question which they\u2019re asking, and actually what I was hearing time and time again, and I was probably failing to answer was, \u201cAm I going to be okay? Am I going to have enough money? Can I do all the things I want to do?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And yet I was then reverting into, \u201cWell, let me tell you about Japanese investment grade debt,\u201d or whatever, sub-Asian high yield bonds, or whatever it might be. And not really answering their questions. So we had this big re-evaluation moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Anthony and I went to a conference, we did a lot of learning, it was a conference called BACK2Y, by a guy called Paul Armson.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We went to this conference, and we heard from other financial planners about the type of way in which they\u2019ve modelled their business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We came back out of that conference, and it was in Birmingham, and it was a two-hour-odd train journey, including waiting times back to London, an hour, and a half, or whatever it was.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And we literally sat on that train, and we mapped out a completely new business to what we had, and we got back to London, and we got back into work that week.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And we just said, \u201cRight, let\u2019s just stop everything here and let\u2019s just build a business, which actually one, we want to be involved with, two, we\u2019re really proud of, and three which we\u2019re going to enjoy doing, and four, which we\u2019re actually going to make a difference to people\u2019s lives.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Trial your new business ideas\/processes on your friendliest customers<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m really interested in that re-evaluation process.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What tips would you offer other entrepreneurs who are feeling a bit disappointed in the lack of purpose in their business, although they\u2019re not quite fulfilling the dream of what they thought the business would be?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How do you go back to why, what steps did you take? How did you come up with that new plan on the train?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so I think there were a couple of books which we read which were crucial in it all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So Simon Sinek\u2019s Start With Why was fundamental in that. Michael Gerber\u2019s The E-Myth, again, these are books which probably a lot of people know, but I didn\u2019t know of them at the time. I switched onto this way of thinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But I suppose it\u2019s about taking that time out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019d literally done tours for a week or two. We mapped out everything in the way in which we wanted everything to work. And then we were really scared about it all, in terms of how do we actually start to introduce this?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I suppose that that was the really scary bit, and I don\u2019t really have any more words of wisdom other than just at one point, Anthony and I just said, \u201cRight, I think we need to stop talking about this, and let\u2019s try it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I went to probably my friendliest client of all, someone who I thought, they\u2019re not going to completely laugh at me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
They thought we were just going to be doing their annual review. But I was like, \u201cDon\u2019t shout me down here, but I want to talk to you about a different way in which we\u2019re going to approach these meetings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u201cWe\u2019re not going to call these annual meetings anymore. We\u2019re going to call them forward planning reviews. So actually, we\u2019re going to discuss what the life you want to have is, and that\u2019s going to form the focus of this discussion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u201cWe\u2019re going to use some software which we introduced into the business, which is going to help us map out and create a roadmap for your financial future and help you see it with that extreme clarity, which maybe we haven\u2019t had before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
\u201cAnd only then once we\u2019ve discussed you, once we\u2019ve looked at that roadmap, will we then touch upon your actual money and how we\u2019re going to actually fund that plan.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019d built these three rings, which we talked about, and it\u2019s really simple in terms of what the process was going to focus, which is financial planning around building this plan and roadmap for your financial future, the wealth management, which is how we\u2019re actually going to fund that plan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then financial coaching, making sure you stick to that plan, so it\u2019s, build it, fund it, stick to it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And actually, the sticking to it is the hardest part, because we\u2019re all human beings. We\u2019re all prone to making mistakes, especially when it comes to investing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I could talk for a long time about all of that, but again, that\u2019s the value which clients are paying us for, in order to keep them on that track and in order to create that plan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So in a really long-winded way of answering that question, Kate, I think you need to take time out from the business, you need to formulate that plan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You need to read up on the areas, like I said, those two books were particularly important for me. But then it was just a case of practising and trying it out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Like I said, I went to my friendliest clients first who I knew weren\u2019t going to laugh at me. And actually when they said, \u201cOh my God, this is amazing,\u201d the only problem I did have, was everyone saying to me, \u201cWhy haven\u2019t we always been doing it this way?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d I was like, \u201cBut I now know better, so I\u2019m going to do better.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Will a shift in focus mean losing customers?<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
In terms of that shift to your business, did it mean losing certain clients or changing the profile of your clients?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Because you said the business was actually doing quite well beforehand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So what did this mean to the shape and projection of your business?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so I think obviously, we\u2019re a fee-based model company. We ended up unfortunately losing some of our lower value clients just because we were working on a fee-based model, et cetera. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
The value wasn\u2019t really there at that lower level in terms of assets, which clients maybe had, it wasn\u2019t really in their interest to pay.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
They could do it if they wanted to, but we had honest conversations with clients and said that maybe that this is no longer the approach to you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think that was unfortunately some of the collateral damage, is that we were unable to work with some of those other clients.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But we probably had just been literally taking on anyone in order to grow the business, without actually looking at who we could actually help. I think this helped us re-evaluate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Look, there\u2019s certain people even of higher value who maybe just don\u2019t get what we want. I get it. There\u2019s certain people, they just want someone who is simply going to run their money.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
They want to talk about emerging market debt, they want to have these conversations. I can talk to you about it, I\u2019m qualified to do all of that stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s just I don\u2019t think that\u2019s the value which I can bring to the table.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What are the benefits of becoming B Corp accredited and how difficult is the process?<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And what is it that made you get B Corp accreditation, and how difficult was that process?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I think if you were to ask any business owner or entrepreneur around their business, \u201cIf you can, do you want to do good with your business?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think you\u2019d be hard pushed, maybe there are some people, but I think it\u2019d be hard pushed to find anyone who said, \u201cNo, of course, if I can do good with my business, then great. Yeah, of course I want to.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think that that was us pre-B Corp. We were trying to build a value proposition, a value company. We had core beliefs in terms of all of the staff, which we wanted to work here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We had a charity mission, we had this stuff in place, but nothing was really formally documented.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I suppose the B Corp accreditation allowed us to formally document and then be held accountable to these extremely high standards in order to make sure that actually, we weren\u2019t just a company that talked about doing good and that we actually delivered on it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So that was the driver behind becoming a B Corp, we were now going to be held accountable, and that\u2019s because B Corp accreditation is an extremely rigorous process to go through.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It probably took us just over 18 months to go through it, and we went through every single thing within our business from the account to the staff, to what toilet paper we were using.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Literally every single minute detail was covered and looking at the impact that we\u2019re making, and to make sure that we were now no longer responsible just\u2026 Well, we are not responsible to our shareholders, we are responsible to our stakeholders.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So our stakeholders being our staff, our clients, and our community. Again, that\u2019s written in our articles, it\u2019s registered there. We have to commit to that. We have to make sure that we act with their interests at heart in every single thing which we do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think the reason why we did it was just so we could hold ourselves accountable and there was no wiggle room say, \u201cOh, if we don\u2019t fancy doing that this month or this year,\u201d et cetera, we\u2019re not going to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Was it something that you and Anthony worked on together, or was there someone else within the business that could deal with that really rigorous 18-month process?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So it was maybe headed up by Anthony, and he had a couple of the guys within the business, one in particular, she\u2019s no longer with us, Caroline, who was amazing at just keeping that on track in order to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So yeah, it\u2019s probably more than a one-person job, but he headed up and led the team involved.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We were all involved in discussions around what we wanted the company to look like, post-accreditation. The thing about B Corp accreditation is it doesn\u2019t end.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re just going through our re-certification this year. We got accredited about a month into lockdown. So actually, it was during a period of doom and gloom, it was a really nice thing to be able to get and announce to everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re now going through our re-accreditation and almost the minute we got the accreditation, we formed the B Corp committee within the company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think there\u2019s five people in the company who work on the B Corp committee. They meet regularly. They have a quarterly outhouse day, where they go out of the office and plan in terms of all of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So they\u2019re working really hard at the moment to make sure we get our accreditation and not just get our accreditation, but also improve our score from when we were first accredited.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Promoting diversity and inclusion on your shadow board<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You talked about the business\u2019s core beliefs, and I know you really champion diversity and inclusion at First Wealth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Can you tell us a bit about your shadow board?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so again, this is a great example. The shadow board is something which probably Anthony and I had talked about, five, six, seven years ago now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We thought, \u201cHow cool would it be?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And actually, as the business owners, at that time, we didn\u2019t really have an actual board. It was basically just me and Anthony, and now we\u2019ve got a board of four.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We thought, \u201cHow cool would it be actually to get involved other people within the business, and actually to have their ideas and their views, and to help them grow our business?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But obviously then with the introduction of B Corp, it is like they\u2019ve forced us into actually doing it. It was again, just one of those ideas we talked about. But in B Corp, when we got accredited, we actually put this stuff in place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Again, all of the evidence shows us that the more diverse and inclusive a company is in terms of its employees, the more successful it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, just from no other point of view, and obviously that\u2019s not purely the only reason we do it, but it\u2019s again, if you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, we\u2019re evidence-based investors, so all of our investment idea is based on 100 years of empirical evidence.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Stuff which you just can\u2019t argue with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s the same with this. It\u2019s like, there\u2019s this bunch of evidence over here. Are we just going to continue to be a white male-dominated business, or are we going to actually do something about it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Now our senior board is 50% male, 50% female. And again, in terms of diversity\/inclusion, the shadow board\u2019s doing great work, not just on that topic, but in a whole host of other areas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Having a health condition could make you run your business more empathetically<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Talking of differences, I know that you have Type 1 diabetes. How have you managed that condition, and has it changed the way that you operate as a founder?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m quite active in the Type 1 community. There\u2019s an amazing charity called JDRF, who I do a lot of work with, and try and support them as much as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
They\u2019re doing some amazing work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are some people who will shout about their diabetes and tell every single person that comes into a room that they\u2019re a Type 1 diabetic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You can go to the airport, and you can run up to the guys, and you tell them, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m Type 1 diabetic. I need to be seated,\u201d going quickly through the airport. \u201cI\u2019ve got needles in my bag,\u201d all the rest of it. I\u2019m the type of person, I don\u2019t really like to talk about it too much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So in terms of how it\u2019s affected me, I try not to think about it, which is difficult managing an illness which relies upon constant checking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, I have a thing on my arm, I\u2019m constantly having to scan that to check my blood sugar levels. I\u2019m having to think about every single thing I eat before I inject myself every single time I eat, I\u2019m taking other injections other times of the day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So there\u2019s a lot of thinking going on about it, but I try not to let it get in my way of running a business. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s necessarily changed the way in which I approached it too much. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Other than just to maybe be more empathetic with other people who are either going through similar things, or other conditions and illnesses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s not say I wasn\u2019t empathetic beforehand, but I think coping with this, it definitely increases that level of empathy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Again, if I had to describe one trait of a great financial planner, it would be empathy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Absolutely. Also, the trait of a great leader in general is empathy and vulnerability.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think so many times, you think it\u2019s somebody who\u2019s brash and confident and has everything right, but that\u2019s not always the case.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yep. No, for sure. I think I\u2019ve never been the type of person that\u2019s thought I had everything in order.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think diabetes made me realise that I\u2019ve maybe got to take even better care of myself. Again, I\u2019m really focused on that in terms of my health and fitness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I was quite into it anyway beforehand, but it certainly made me re-evaluate things, what am I trying to achieve? I don\u2019t think about it in the context of a reduction in lifespan or anything in that context, I believe that I\u2019m in charge of my own destiny, that I can deliver.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
If I keep myself fit and healthy, that I\u2019ve got as much chance as anyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Why entrepreneurs should invest in financial planning<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I want to talk to you about when you approach new clients. I know that one of the big misconceptions is that financial planning isn\u2019t for entrepreneurs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What is your response to that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a really cheesy line, but a goal without a plan is just a wish. How can you go anywhere without knowing where you\u2019re going to?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What\u2019s the point? What\u2019s the point of money? What\u2019s the point of growing a business?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What are you doing it for?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think that is the point of financial planning, to help bridge that gap between a business and an individual.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think so many entrepreneurs, so many business people are so busy running their businesses day to day, so many people have got so much wealth within their business, but personally may be very poor, both in terms of actual wealth and maybe their time and their physical wealth, and all of the other attributes that go along with that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What is the point of it all then?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think that is what financial planning is around, is trying to reframe that conversation to get people in a room, to have these deep, meaningful conversations, and to really understand what matters most to you in your life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What is most important? What are we doing here?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Because the truth about money is based on one undeniable fact, life is not a rehearsal.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
A challenge which any client should always say to a financial planner, if you\u2019re in a room with a financial planner who\u2019s just telling you, \u201cPut money into your pension, put money into your ISAs, do all of these things,\u201d and just to save, save, save, is just turn around to them and say, \u201cWell, what if tomorrow never comes?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And no one with 100% certainty can tell you that tomorrow\u2019s going to come.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Therefore, the conversation\u2019s about what do we want to do in this next week? What do we want to do in this next month, year, et cetera, what\u2019s the life which you want to have before either A, you\u2019re no longer able to physically do that? Or B, you\u2019re no longer around to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think that\u2019s why for entrepreneurs, it\u2019s more important than potentially for people who are employed, because they\u2019re so busy and so focused on their business that maybe they sometimes forget to look up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Actually I think that maybe you\u2019re right, that they could maybe invest in a coach, but I think the majority them won\u2019t do this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think, again, the conversations which I\u2019m having with entrepreneurs and businesspeople, time and time again, they say, \u201cOh, wow, no one\u2019s ever spoken to me this way. My accountant\u2019s never spoken to me this way, and my lawyer\u2019s never spoken to me this way. I\u2019ve never been able to be as open in this.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We will get into the financial metrics as well, and I suppose that\u2019s the advantage of not just using a coach.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We will get into the financial metrics of how this all pans out and looks, but let\u2019s have that conversation first and let\u2019s build that plan and show you what if you want to stop work at 50 rather than 65? What if you want to send your kids to private school?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
If you don\u2019t do that, well, I\u2019m having this discussion at the moment with my wife around private schools. I didn\u2019t go to private school, she went to a private school. Obviously, it\u2019s extremely expensive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
When I look at my financial plan, the difference on me potentially sending my kids to private school a lot could move the dial on my retirement age, or the time when I can make work a choice rather than a necessity, because I hate the word retirement, but I could make the difference by around eight or nine years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s like, am I going to be a better parent to my child at 55 rather than say 65? My youngest is six, and maybe at a time when they\u2019re 18, am I going to be able to help them and be around for them during that period of time, and be really focused rather than stressing about work and paying off debt?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Is that worth it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And again, these are the types of conversations you can have. I\u2019m not making judgment on whether it\u2019s the right thing or the wrong thing. That\u2019s essentially down to you, but it\u2019s like, have you ever thought about it in that context before?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think the majority of us, and again, every single entrepreneur on this planet will have a business plan, but they don\u2019t have a business plan for themselves or their family. It is mind-blowing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Where to start when writing your own financial plan<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So let\u2019s dig a bit deeper into some of those conversations.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
When you first start to build a financial plan for an entrepreneur, what are the first four or five questions you would ask them in that room to map out their future?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I can take you through some of the open questions which we start with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So again, this is what\u2019s led you to want to be in this room today? What has driven you? Because again, there must be some motivation, and obviously we can drill down into that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of my favourite questions also to open with is I think, like I said, I don\u2019t believe in this term retirement. I\u2019ve seen too many entrepreneurs who I believe will never retire in the official sense of the word. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think it\u2019s an industrial age invention, which doesn\u2019t exist in today\u2019s world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think if you were to ask traditionally, a financial planner might say, well, \u201cWell, tell me what you want your retirement to look like.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think for most of us, it\u2019s too much of an abstract concept and too far in the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So therefore, the question which I always like to start with is, \u201cTell me, what does your perfect day look like?\u201d Because I think that the majority of us, even if we love what we do, there\u2019s probably bits of our job which we don\u2019t like doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s like, right, how can we get you to a position where you can just do more and more of the things which you love doing, and less and less of the things which you don\u2019t like doing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So again, if you were to ask me what my perfect day looks like, my perfect day would be probably doing some client meetings, having some great conversation with clients in the morning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It would probably be going maybe to the gym at lunchtime, doing some marketing work around First Wealth in the afternoon and then going home, seeing my children, spending time with family, friends, holidays, and all of those types of things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Obviously my day-to-day currently, I\u2019m a highly regulated business, so the paperwork is mind-blowing sometimes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
If I could walk out those meetings and not do any of it, that would be my dream situation. So right now, I\u2019m working on how I get myself into that position.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Well, I think for most of us, if we can work on that idea, what does your perfect day look like? Rather than what does it look like in five years, 10 years, et cetera, again, you can use these questions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s some other stuff which you can do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Let\u2019s say you went into a doctor surgery, and you were told you only had 24 hours to live, what would you regret that you haven\u2019t done in life?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What is it that you\u2019re not doing at the moment that you would like to be doing, but you think you can\u2019t because of financial constraints?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Again, these are great questions which open people up in terms of thinking about what is it that I want to do before I\u2019m no longer around?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Then we can start to work on a plan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We use this tool called life goals, which we\u2019ve developed. We try to make this stuff engaging and fun. So it\u2019s a Tinder-style swipe left, swipe right on a deck of cards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The problem is for some individuals, if I sit here and ask you, Kate, tell me about your goals, you\u2019ll probably look a little bit like a deer in the headlights, because you\u2019ll be like, \u201cOh my god, what do you mean, my goals?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You start panicking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Where do I start?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Exactly. Like, \u201cShould I have goals? Rob, what do I want to achieve in life? Oh my God,\u201d like, \u201cRob, you just sent me down a complete existential crisis on why I exist.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think, again, we use this tool life goal in order to try and set these goals, it\u2019s a lot perfect, because obviously not every single goal can be set within a deck of cards, but we tried to cover off most things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And we\u2019ve split them into different categories around the individual, the family, your career, and your legacy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So again, we\u2019ve got four colour cards and there\u2019s loads of different information on each one. Then you create your life goals in order to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think unless you\u2019re having those conversations, unless you\u2019re really getting into that nitty-gritty with a client, and if all you\u2019re doing is really just focusing in on their money as a financial planner, you\u2019re probably not answering the stuff or helping them with the stuff which they want answers to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Financial planning can help you to run your business more effectively<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I love it that you\u2019ve created the Tinder for financial planning. Excellent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How would you say financial planning makes you better at running a business?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I think because I spend so much time working with entrepreneurs and businesspeople, again, I get lucky, so lucky in that I get surrounded by some amazing people, which again, you take tips and tools and ideas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And these conversations are a great way of me building my knowledge and I try and take a lot of that stuff back to the business and best of breed ideas. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
These guys are doing this, I think that would be a really cool thing to maybe implement within First Wealth, or within Thrive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we take, again, I think financial planning helps me in that. I think because we spend so much time on the planning stage with clients rather than just jumping into running their money, it means that as a business owner, we are really focused on our business plan as well. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
It makes sure that we right out, keep going all back to that business plan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We keep on adapting that business plan because anything, a financial plan is almost redundant by the time you walk out the door. Life doesn\u2019t work like a plan. Most businesses plans don\u2019t look like that five, six years in chalk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Obviously, by being a financial planner, by reviewing with people every year and sitting down with them and reassessing their plan, changing it, adapting it to their life or to the wider world, it means that again, we\u2019ve become quite good in terms of our skill set at doing this for ourselves as business owners of First Wealth in adapting our financial plan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Making financial planning more accessible and affordable<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Why did you launch this new financial education platform Thrive last year?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What sparked that move?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
B Corp allowed us to actually introduce this, so we set it up, originally it was called Let\u2019s Talk About Money, and it was on Instagram, and we quickly built up an Instagram following during lockdown. And then we pivoted it into Thrive Money around 12 months ago now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It was probably driven out of this existential crisis of do I exist in the world just simply to make rich people richer? I felt that as a company we knew too much, we knew how these things should be done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We knew the power of financial planning and that actually, every single person in the world could do with a personal financial plan, but the majority of them can\u2019t afford our fees, or the majority of financial advisors\u2019 fees, especially in London.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So that\u2019s where Thrive Money was born, jargon-free financial education aimed at people who can\u2019t afford to have access to financial advice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So the dream is, how can I help people create a financial plan, which if you come to First Wealth, our starting fee is \u00a32,000 to create a financial plan, how can I do this for under \u00a3200?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And that was the spark which like, how do we do that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So again, it was digital, online video course. So we launched our first course around a month ago.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve got about 150 people going through that at the moment. It\u2019s a 30-day financial wellbeing course. So again, it\u2019s not called financial advice or investment course, it\u2019s a financial wellbeing course.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How do we use our money to make our lives happier and better? I think we focus on that. We look at spending habits, and we look at budgeting. How do you manage debt? How do you maybe start setting goals for your financial future? How do you get yourself organised?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
By the end of it, you\u2019ll be able to create a one-page financial plan, which again, you can then hold yourself accountable towards. It\u2019s maybe not quite as good as having a face-to-face interaction or a natural advisor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve built a community via a platform called Circle, where we\u2019ve got everyone on there sharing their ideas, sharing their stories. People are realising they\u2019re not alone in this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So again, that community acts as your advisor support level. We run monthly live chats with a financial planner on those calls where we look into a particular topic and then people can submit questions, and we can try and answer some of those questions for them on that call as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to deal with online trolls and industry sceptics<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You said, \u201cAt times, it felt impossible. We have battled online trolls and industry sceptics all while bootstrapping the project from our own funds.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Can you tell us a little bit about those challenges and how you\u2019ve dealt with them?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Financial education online is really difficult, partly because we\u2019re in a highly regulated business, and therefore everything which we do is really super scrutinised.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So therefore, we are trying to give, I can\u2019t call it advice, but we\u2019re trying to give guidance and education to people without giving them actual advice because I can\u2019t give advice unless I sit down and really know the ins and outs of you, the individual who I\u2019m trying to help there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think within the industry, this hasn\u2019t really been done, or done on the scale of what we\u2019re trying to grow Thrive to. I think the industry just felt maybe that it couldn\u2019t be done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The industry also maybe doesn\u2019t want it to be done because they might see it as a bit of a threat to face-to-face financial planning, which is where the majority of the people are working.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think robo-advice, which focuses purely on the investment angle, so like robo-advice platforms, which you can go on and invest via, some of them are great, but they focus purely on the investment angle. They would say though that that\u2019s what people want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So they\u2019re sceptical around the need for broader financial education. And then I suppose because of online trolls and people, the course isn\u2019t perfect, because it can\u2019t be perfect unless you sit down in a room face-to-face with someone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But we\u2019re trying to make something which is suitable for a wide audience, but obviously everyone is an individual, especially when it comes to their money. Everyone\u2019s got nuances and slightly different ways of doing things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It could be a completely different set of circumstances, yet we\u2019re trying to package something up into a course which helps a huge remit of people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So people may think that actually, you could go and do this stuff yourself, or there are things like Martin Lewis\u2019s website where you can go and read up, and you\u2019re right, you can do all of these different things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think what we\u2019ve built is very different to that. It\u2019s focusing in on financial wellbeing, it\u2019s focusing in on financial planning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s using the experience and the expertise of what we\u2019ve done with thousands of clients at First Wealth and trying to replicate it in an online digital format, in a low-cost way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And I think that therefore, that is different to everything else which exists out there. But again, people will obviously compare it to some of these other things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Some of these other things are free and therefore, we\u2019re charging for this. But again, we tried to keep the cost as low down as possible. The more people we get on it, the lower down we can drive those costs and figures.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Our dream is to make financial planning free, and we still provide a lot of free content on our Instagram videos, Reels, et cetera, around loads of different topics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We do monthly free webinars where we have 500 people, 1,000 people on the calls, and we\u2019re talking around topics, people are asking questions, so we try and do a lot of free stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But Thrive is a business, and I suppose some of the sceptics have come at us a little bit from that angle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Always great how passionate you are about the industry, and how you\u2019re trying to make it more accessible to everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Success will look like changing the industry for the better<\/h2>\n\n\n\nKate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m curious to know, what does your own personal and professional financial plan look like, and what does success mean to you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Robert Caplan:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
My financial plan is around building First Wealth to be a company which actually makes a difference in financial planning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I\u2019m very conscious of what our remit is here and what our limitations are as well. We\u2019re not going to change the wellbeing of financial planners, but I can definitely change the face of financial planning in this country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I suppose that is what success will look like to me, a company which has actually grown and actually makes a difference to financial planning, and to individuals in the UK.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So therefore, if I can change the industry as a whole and get everyone to start doing it this way, that\u2019s how we\u2019re going to help as many people as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And that\u2019s my why, of why I exist, is to try and help people create confidence, for individuals, to inspire them with ideas, and ultimately give them the freedom to live the life which they want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s my personal why.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
My financial plan is to grow First Wealth as much as possible until a time where we\u2019ve always talked about this, Anthony, and I, either one, we stop having fun, or B, we think we can\u2019t actually add any more value or make a difference within the profession.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But at the moment, we\u2019ve got lots of different ideas, and we\u2019re young enough still, just about, to keep going. Yeah, we\u2019re really excited about the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Inspired by this small business story?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to Sound Advice on Apple iTunes<\/a> here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We are also on Spotify<\/a> and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Join our community to share your insights and stories on Twitter @SageIreland<\/a> using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram @SageOfficial<\/a> or in the comments below!<\/p>\n\n\n\n You can check out First Wealth on their website<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\nWant to know more about First Wealth or Robert Caplan?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/08\/YBCA_FY19_Intacct_V3_0338-1-1215x810.jpg\")
\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/04\/z.5E3A0481_All-Uses.jpg\")
\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"