Her latest offering is The Success Myth<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But she slowly realised she was addicted to chasing external validation from others and that all the success in the world didn\u2019t mean she would automatically bypass the issue that many business owners face\u2014burnout.<\/p>\n\n\n\n While many think burnout comes from being snowed under by mountains of work, Emma found that her burnout actually came from being out of alignment with herself and her values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In this episode, she talks about the misconceptions of burnout, the warning signs and how you can take small steps to reconnect with yourself to overcome the mental and physical symptoms that come along with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Here is her unfiltered advice below:<\/p>\n\n\n\n Emma, I first met you back in 2018 when I was interviewing you for The Telegraph, and I remember we had so much in common it was weird.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We both went to the same university, both did the same degree in English literature, and both ended up working in the media.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I know. It\u2019s crazy because that year so much happened, which I talk about in my book. <\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s like the year that I sort of pin a lot of my story on, so I love that I met you that year. It was fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And that was also the year you just brought out The Multi-Hyphen Method.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So at the time you were a blogger, author, speaker, podcast host, digital consultant, and it just seemed like you had this dream multi-hyphen career.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So what is it that led from there to your burnout episode last year?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Basically, 2018 was probably one of the best times of my career on paper, it was when the book came out, The Multi-Hyphen Method, which looking back I\u2019m really proud of that book.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I was 28, and I was basically saying I don\u2019t want to work the way everyone else was working. I quit my job and I basically made a lot of my side hustles my full-time job.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I had multiple income streams and wanted to talk about being a multi-hyphenate person in the world, and it was a really exciting year, but from the outside it looked like everything was sorted.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Like you said, it was really shiny. I met the Queen that year. I got on the Forbes 30 under 30 list that year. The book was The Sunday Times bestseller that year. It was wild.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And also it was one of the most unhappiest years I\u2019ve had, where I felt so out of alignment with who I am, and I felt really, really lost and really, really sad.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I really wanted to write about that because we hear it a lot, and we hear people say, oh yeah, it all looked great on Instagram, but inside it was awful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I wanted to write a book and really go in on this subject because I felt like if I\u2019m not going to do it, who\u2019s going to do it? Because we\u2019re kind of living a bit of a lie and I don\u2019t think that\u2019s helpful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How did you stop living the lie? What was the kind of breaking point or moment where you said, actually this doesn\u2019t feel right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, I think being in your twenties as well, because I\u2019m going to be 34 this year. So I think that\u2019s quite a lot of growth and quite a lot happens in those years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I think what I write about in the book, and it\u2019s not about me by the way, this book is very broad. I don\u2019t think anyone wants to hear 80,000 words just on me complaining about this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s based on 400 interviews I\u2019ve done with people over the last seven years as well. But it was essentially an addiction to success. It was an addiction to that high I would get when other people were saying I was doing well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was the external validation that I think a lot of us can relate to someone saying, wow, look at what you\u2019re doing. That must be amazing. It\u2019s like that I kept chasing until I broke.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And in your question, when you mentioned burnout, essentially it got to the point where, I don\u2019t know, I think there\u2019s something about life where you no longer can choose, and something out there is like no more of this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Go back to who you really are and why you started doing this in the first place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So how did you go back to who you really are and separate that external validation you were getting to how you felt inside?<\/p>\n\n\n\n It sounds cheesy, but I write about this quite a lot actually in my earlier work about not losing that childhood self because essentially, we kind of all are that person inside.<\/p>\n\n\n\n On a really basic level, all the things I love now is what 11-year-old me loves.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m in an office full of books and most of those books are probably still Jacqueline Wilson children\u2019s books.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m wearing a really bright jumper. I\u2019m wearing big glasses. I used to wear glasses obviously at school and was a bit of a geek, and I\u2019ve got posters on my wall that remind me of things I liked when I was younger.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I feel like that side really, if you lose that, it can get quite dark. I think adult life is really hard and so joy and colour and vibrancy and play and looking after a dog and watching films, these are all things that actually make a good life, not just the outward appearance of being really successful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So yeah, I would say it was looking back and going, \u201cOh my God, when was the last time I saw a friend? When was the last time I remembered someone\u2019s birthday? When was the last time I laughed?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n There was about two or three years where I was outwardly doing really well, but yeah, wasn\u2019t happy at all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you always had to strip everything away and kind of go back to your childhood roots and find the things that sparked joy for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What were some of the steps you took in that kind of quitting process?<\/p>\n\n\n\n So a lot of it was quitting and actually, this is also a sort of taboo I feel in our modern-day culture of always adding things on, always wanting more, always wanting bigger, better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We can get so much at our fingertips now, but it was really an exercise of just less stuff, just less to do, less on my to-do list and making peace, I suppose, with getting to the end of the day and being like, \u201cOh, I didn\u2019t do much today,\u201d but actually I had done loads. I just hadn\u2019t done a million things or burnt myself out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There\u2019s actually a phrase I talk about in the book that was coined by [journalist] Anna Codrea-Rado who wrote about productivity dysmorphia.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This idea that it\u2019s like a dysmorphia, the idea we have with our own success, we\u2019re all doing amazing stuff. We just don\u2019t even take one second really to think about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you think social media and this kind of age of information is fuelling that though? Because we are always looking for more, more, more online, aren\u2019t we?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, and it\u2019s really distracting. And there\u2019s like a French philosopher that said once about how we want what other people want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We just go through life going, I think I want that actually because that person looks really happy with it. But what we\u2019re not realising is that\u2019s not our version of success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n For example, I don\u2019t want to live in the countryside but for someone else that must be amazing. For me, I actually prefer being in quite a busy environment and going and getting coffee, that\u2019s something that makes me happy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I think we\u2019re in this strange time, and we have been for so long with Instagram where something visual can be very confusing when it looks so enticing, but we don\u2019t actually sit with whether we really want it or whether we think we should.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s like all these things we are constantly seeing gives us this permanent fear of missing out all the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m curious to know how you went about reprioritising your time because obviously the multi-hyphen method is all about adding more strings to your bow and doing lots of different things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So how did you start that process of stripping it back, and obviously what were the financial pressures on you as well?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Because it\u2019s very well to say, take a step back, take three months, six months off. But a lot of people have bills to pay. So how did you work that balance?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, it\u2019s funny because I wouldn\u2019t really say that the multi-hyphen method was the problem because, for me, that was my saviour. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I had multiple income streams, so I could take four months off because I have passive income and I have businesses that don\u2019t really need me to be on constantly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s quite different if you are just a freelancer where it\u2019s like your time is you. Whereas I\u2019d sort of built things that could kind of move without me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I also had a rule with the multi-hyphen method that I think I wrote in the book where it\u2019s one in one out. It\u2019s a busy nightclub. It\u2019s like you can\u2019t come in. We have enough going on here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I was always really strict with that and I think this is the misconception actually is my burnout wasn\u2019t from being busy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m not a very busy person. I actually don\u2019t work endlessly, and I didn\u2019t before my burnout.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What it came from was being so out of alignment with what essentially makes me happy and what makes me a creative person. That\u2019s what burnt me out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And it\u2019s actually, I think it\u2019s been coined recently, it\u2019s called existential burnout, where you\u2019re basically just so far away from your values. Your values have gone out of the window and my values are make things that I like, write for a living.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was my ultimate goal, to get paid to write, and I\u2019m doing that and the fact that I felt like that wasn\u2019t enough, and I had to do all these million other things to please other people, that\u2019s what made me burn out. <\/p>\n\n\n\n It was the people pleasing more than anything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So yeah, it\u2019s a really good question about taking time out. I think it\u2019s a really important discussion because I think this is going to be an epidemic. I think more, and more people are going to be burning out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And so I don\u2019t have the answers to a big, big question like that, but I think it\u2019s leaders and companies and people need to be ready to treat each other as human beings and be like, you know what? If you\u2019re going to burn out, we need to set up some sort of system where people can have more breaks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And for people who are feeling really stuck in their careers and burnt out and unhappy, what is the fastest way, or what are your practical tips to becoming unstuck?<\/p>\n\n\n\n The fastest way is not going to be the best way. This is not an overnight thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I really write in my book how I am quite allergic to any quick fixes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n And I think that\u2019s why we kind of get ourselves in these muddles as it is because we don\u2019t take the time to kind of, over a long stretch of time, do really small things to help us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So that\u2019s what I would say really, is approaching anything wanting it to just be done is very stressful. I even think that about my novels I write, they\u2019re such a slow process. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019ve been working on the one I\u2019m working on now for three years, but if I woke up one morning and was like, I just want it done, I would probably burn out again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I actually have a turtle on my desk that reminds me of turtle steps, like small steps. So I would say that would be my advice, maybe the quickest way actually is taking it slow in the long run.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Doing some really small things every day, whether that\u2019s journaling in the morning, whether it\u2019s saying no to a friend who is stressing you out, whether it\u2019s, I don\u2019t know, getting up half an hour earlier and having a cup of tea in silence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The more space you create for yourself every day, even if it\u2019s small, it can be really helpful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I love that. Take turtle steps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And how did you go about reprioritising your day? Did you take that extra half an hour for a cup of tea? Did you change the times that you write your book?<\/p>\n\n\n\n What are some of the small steps that you took?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, during the burnout, I didn\u2019t really have a choice. It was really scary and it was really awful. And I don\u2019t know if anyone listening will have gone through it, but I don\u2019t even know if burnout is the right word.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s sort of you are unable to function really in the same way. It\u2019s really terrifying because when you are in that situation, you\u2019re not sure if you\u2019ll get back to normal and if you are that limited, your whole life has changed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I actually had a lot of people reaching out when I wrote about it because I did write about it quite honestly at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Once I\u2019d come out of the worst of it, people who had long Covid were kind of reaching out to me and saying, this is really speaking to me because chronic fatigue and even people with ADHD or this sense of massive overwhelm from the world at the moment because it is really scary and there\u2019s a lot going on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That forced me essentially into it. I didn\u2019t choose to have three months off, this was a point where I had to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I feel very, very lucky I could in an easy-ish way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But what I learned essentially was, again, the small things are really important. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I took a daily walk, I called a friend instead of sending them a WhatsApp message, I went swimming, hadn\u2019t been swimming since I was 10 years old, really. I got out first thing in the morning just for some fresh air.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I mean these are really, really simple things. And something I also wrote about in my previous book, Disconnected, which was more about how to get back in touch with yourself and taking time offline.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I find it quite funny in a way that we are in this world where we have everything at our fingertips, and yet we are discussing with friends the best way to go for a walk and have a cup of tea and get some sun on our face.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s like we\u2019re going back to basics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Because you were in that really dark place, did you find it hard to even get out of bed and leave your house and go outside?<\/p>\n\n\n\n How hard was that to do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you know what? It was funny because I feel like I know so much about this. I\u2019ve even done a life coach training course over the last few years I\u2019ve been doing that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When I was in it, I knew what was happening, and I feel very, very privileged. Because I think some people would lie in bed for three days not being able to do anything and think, \u201cOh my god, what is wrong with me?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Whereas I knew nothing was wrong with me. I actually think it\u2019s very normal for human beings to be like, \u201cOh my god, I need a break.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think the fact that we\u2019re in this culture where we are so against resting, and I know so many people in my life who can\u2019t sit down for five minutes because they think they\u2019re being lazy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So the biggest challenge for me really was learning to rest, learning to rest again, and really resting, like lying in bed for a day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When you\u2019re that burnt out, you need it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And you talked about going back to your values and the things that were really important to you again, how did you go through that process?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Were there any particular books that you read or podcasts that you listened to? How did you work out what your values are, and then what steps you needed to take after that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n One book I loved was Martha Beck\u2019s The Way Of Integrity, which came out I think maybe last year or the year before. But it\u2019s amazing on this about values.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s essentially a book about how to live in integrity, essentially. So show up as the person you are and be honest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n She talks a lot about how she used to lie quite a lot and I really resonate with that because the little white lies of if a friend says, \u201cDo you want to come to this party?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n And you say, \u201cOh actually I\u2019ve got a stomach ache.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n There\u2019s none of that now it\u2019s like, it\u2019s like, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t want to go. Sorry.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I think that\u2019s getting older. It\u2019s just being so honest in a nice way, in a kind way, but being honest. So that\u2019s an amazing book if you want to get back to your values because there\u2019s so much research around honesty and health.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If we live in an honest way, and we are telling the truth at all times, essentially, we will be healthier and happier.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you also have to have some awkward conversations with clients as you were stripping away some of those projects that weren\u2019t making you happy?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I wouldn\u2019t say they were awkward. I think people really respected it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was the most amazing thing of all of this is, when you set boundaries, and you say no, and you say, I\u2019m really sorry. I don\u2019t want to work together anymore because of X, Y, and Z, and it\u2019s on me. It\u2019s because of me. I\u2019m making changes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n People are really understanding. And I think we underestimate how understanding people are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When you say to someone, I don\u2019t, not in a position to be able to do that, I\u2019m really sorry. They\u2019ll say, that\u2019s fine most of the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you think \u2018side hustle\u2019 has become a bit of a dirty word now? Do you think we\u2019re side hustling ourselves into a mental crisis?<\/p>\n\n\n\n No, I love side hustles.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think they\u2019re amazing. I think they\u2019re the reason personally why I have joy in my life. A side hustle, maybe the word has become a little bit icky. Maybe it\u2019s side project. I\u2019ve always enjoyed side project more than hustle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But coming home after a day of being quite mentally bored and then doing a little passion project on the side has always been amazing for me. I think it\u2019s really context, and it\u2019s nuance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s like, you wouldn\u2019t say the gym is a dirty word just because someone\u2019s forcing you to go to the gym, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t want to do that.\u201d But if you love going to the gym, that\u2019s a great thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I think it\u2019s sort of how you place it in your life, not really the thing itself, if that makes sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. It\u2019s also in the language, isn\u2019t it? Because side hustle invokes stress and pressure and being constantly on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Whereas passion project, as you put it, is about doing something that you love and enjoying it and getting fulfilment and joy out in it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And again, it goes back to the should thing. I write a lot about that in the book, about shoulds.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Are you feeling like you should have a side hustle, therefore probably not great if you feel like you want to have one that\u2019s very different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you have a bit of a crisis of identity when you were going through this cleansing process? Because so much of it had been attached to your work and what you do and what success was all about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, definitely. I think we go through identity changes all the time. And I haven\u2019t had children but my friends, all of my friends practically are having kids now. They\u2019re going through massive identity changes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I think this is just my version as someone who probably won\u2019t have children and my career is a massive part of my life. I hope that I can write books until I\u2019m really old.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I think it\u2019s kind of going through an identity change within that context. But again, I think it\u2019s the most natural, normal thing in the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And when you really realise how many times we change in our life, I\u2019m probably going to go through this again. So I\u2019m really glad that I\u2019ve been through it once because I can go through it again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We are always iterating, and we\u2019re always evolving, and we never stay the same. And once you realise that, I think you don\u2019t really beat yourself up anymore. Because you\u2019re like, oh, I\u2019m going through a massive change, here we go again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And with your identity, did you find that you were getting judgment for your decision to not have children?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well because I wrote the novel about it, and I did quite a lot of interviews about it, and I\u2019ve been quite honest about it. I think it was just great. I think people really understood.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And what was amazing actually about the child-free conversation is I knew that I would meet other child-free women. That was amazing. I love the community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I\u2019ve actually felt closer to my friends with kids through it because we talk about things so openly, and we bridge that gap, and I can play a role in their life that is just slightly different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And yeah, it\u2019s been one of the most positive things I\u2019ve done really.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So what are you working on at the moment, Emma? And if somebody said to you at a dinner party, what do you do? How would you define yourself?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well I would say I\u2019m a writer and I would probably leave it there because that does encompass all of the different strands. Because I am working on lots of different things. But that\u2019s the easiest answer, I suppose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And something that I\u2019m working on at the moment, which I\u2019m loving is my Substack newsletter. It\u2019s absolutely revitalised me. It\u2019s incredible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And back to the childhood thing, it\u2019s literally what I\u2019ve always loved, but now in 2023. It\u2019s essentially writing for fun, for other people. It\u2019s why I started blogging in 2009. It\u2019s why I used to write little typewriter letters when I was younger.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s just the same thing I\u2019ve always loved doing but just now, which is in the form of a newsletter online, it\u2019s called Substack. You basically pay \u00a36 a month to receive all my writing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And what was amazing during the burnout thing is I only wrote for my community on Substack. I wasn\u2019t saying here\u2019s my deepest, darkest story of burnout for everyone to read. I wanted it to be for my readers, for the people that would really get a lot from it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So that\u2019s what I\u2019m excited about the internet at the moment is you can write for a community again, and it doesn\u2019t have to just be everywhere online for everyone to read.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And how are you building up and nurturing that Substack community?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, I\u2019ve had it for a year now, and it\u2019s been growing superfast. It\u2019s really, really exciting. And again, there\u2019s a community on Substack where there are other writers so you kind of recommend each other, so it\u2019s a very natural organic growth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m not really interested in hacks or tips or growth or scamming people to sign up. I\u2019m going the other way, which is slow growth, loving it, really enjoying it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s interesting you talk about slow growth because in so many ways that\u2019s like the opposite to business culture, which is always about fast returns and revenue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I love how you are almost turning that on its head and promoting slow growth and turtle steps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. And what\u2019s really funny about it, the irony in this, is I have a thriving business from only a handful of people really that pay me every month.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You don\u2019t need a million people on Instagram to be making six figures. You really do need to cater for your people, and they\u2019ll come and find you, and they\u2019ll tell their friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And it really is about being authentic. And I know that word is overused, but if you really are authentic, your business will survive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A lot of businesses, as we know, are going under, changing, because they\u2019re just sort of going with the wind, and they don\u2019t know who they are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And what do you think individuals can do to try and change their mindset and stop this constant quest for more, more, more?<\/p>\n\n\n\n And this is hard by the way. This is a simple answer, but it\u2019s actually super hard, is taking some time to really sit with where you\u2019re at.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There are so many distractions now, and I know how that feels because I was there too in that you can distract yourself from anything. God knows however many Netflix, Amazon, Apple, however many there are now, I\u2019m losing count.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And obviously so many ways to kind of consume ourselves out of thinking about where we\u2019re at.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But really just taking an honest look, whether that\u2019s journaling or a really honest conversation with a friend or if you are needing to talk to someone in more of a therapy space and just kind of look at things in the eye and take it from there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you have a therapist, Emma?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I don\u2019t. I have a life coach though, who I adore. And it\u2019s really amazing because it\u2019s a space where you are just being listened to essentially.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You solve your own problems by the end of the call, but it\u2019s just someone to sort of be there and ask you good questions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And did you turn to a life coach after the burnout episode, or what sparked you to get one?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I actually got one in the pandemic in 2020 when I had a lot of time to think.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I\u2019ve got to say this book did come out of looking at the pandemic and looking at where we\u2019re going after the pandemic, the Great Resignation, the fact that we had a lot of time to think.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A lot of people did have a pause. A lot of people obviously didn\u2019t, but I just think we are completely different people now to who we were pre-pandemic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So that was my sort of catalyst to get one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And what are some of the questions that you ask your life coach?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, I don\u2019t really ask her questions. It\u2019s more of a conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You bring something to the table and they kind of just listen. They kind of mirror back what you\u2019re saying. They make you feel really heard and really understood. They kind of prompt you or ask you. They ask you the questions, and you figure them out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So it\u2019s amazing. And also it really is against advice culture, which is something I talk about in the book. I\u2019m really against constantly asking other people for advice because I don\u2019t think anyone has the answers to your life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think it can be really dangerous when people give advice out of the blue. And it\u2019s something that I actually don\u2019t do anymore ever really at events.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019ll never just give advice because I don\u2019t know the person well enough.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And actually it\u2019s interesting that you\u2019re saying that the conversation\u2019s very reflective, and it\u2019s often just you talking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s almost like you already have the answers to your questions, they\u2019re already inside you, but it\u2019s just about trusting your gut.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, yes. I think we do all have the answers inside us, all of us, which is why it\u2019s so painful when we go a little bit wrong because we know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think we know deep down like, \u201cOh God, I\u2019ve not listened again,\u201d because I had so many warning signs for the burnout.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This was not out of the blue. This was little nudges that I ignored.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I would say that\u2019s another thing is if you\u2019re getting a little nudge of like, oh, this isn\u2019t right, this isn\u2019t right, and you feel like you are really pushing kind of upstream, that is a sort of sign to kind of lessen and ease it up a bit and just try new things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What were some of those nudges? Was it that kind of not in your stomach, was it saying yes to projects where you should have said no?<\/p>\n\n\n\n What were the signs?<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was all of that, and it was very physical in my body, which is another thing I wrote about. It\u2019s very physical and that\u2019s another thing I don\u2019t think a lot of us really pay attention to. It\u2019s so in the mind.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And obviously I\u2019m a writer, I can sit for hours and hours just with my own head. So learning the physical symptoms for everything, and now I can really fine tune them. Even down to getting an email from someone I already know and thinking, that feels a bit weird, don\u2019t want to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Or, if it\u2019s a work thing you have to do because obviously, we have to do things sometimes, or at least for a paid job. Work is not fun all the time obviously, but it\u2019s even being aware of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So just knowing like, oh, I feel a bit weird today is better than just kind of numbing it out and ignoring it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And you talked about all these distractions that we are constantly getting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How do you turn off all that noise?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you have any particular rules in place where you, I don\u2019t know, put your phone in a drawer for three hours and don\u2019t look at emails, or what\u2019s your method?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I used to try and do all of that stuff and I felt like the harder I was on myself, the harder it all was. As in, if I beat myself up for not putting my phone away or treating that as another to-do list, it was like another thing to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So being really gentle with yourself, being really nice to yourself, being like, okay, we were on our phone a lot today, let\u2019s not do that tomorrow and just kind of being less intense with it really helped me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But also post-burnout, what was really funny in a way is, I was less interested in my phone and more interested in the outside world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The walk was so amazing, and I was looking at things, and I was like, it\u2019s a sunny day, and I\u2019m really enjoying this walk. I didn\u2019t need the podcasts, I didn\u2019t need my phone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And so I think over time you can adjust to just find your phone not even that interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s so interesting how the pandemic really changed the way we think about things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I remember going out for a walk, like you said, and just really appreciating nature. Also getting a takeaway coffee was like a new high in the week.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, exactly. And that\u2019s the message really of The Success Myth. If you get right to the end of the book, at the beginning I talk about what I thought success was.<\/p>\n\n\n\n By the end I\u2019m talking about what success actually is, and it\u2019s not really the big stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And it sounds really clich\u00e9 and people have been writing this for hundreds of years, but a really good day is made up of actually quite small things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So what does success now look and feel like to you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I guess this is quite a broad answer, and I\u2019m still figuring it out. And I also think it\u2019s still changing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But for me, success is a day or a week or a month or a year where I feel like I\u2019m not abandoning myself, and I\u2019m not going against my own values essentially. And so it is about sticking to that integrity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And of course we go wrong, and we make mistakes, and we trip up, and we get things wrong over and over again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I think it\u2019s like if I get closer to that, then it\u2019s success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to Sound Advice on Apple iTunes<\/a> here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We are also on Spotify<\/a> and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Join our community to share your insights and stories on Twitter @SageIreland<\/a> using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram @SageOfficial<\/a> or in the comments below!<\/p>\n\n\n\n You can check out The Success Myth here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n For more on Substack, here is the website<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n
You can be successful and still get struck with burnout<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Finding your breaking point and realising you\u2019re addicted to success<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Listen to your inner child and reconnect with what you love doing<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Doing less will help you find yourself again<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Social media is fuelling your productivity dysmorphia<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Burnout doesn\u2019t always come from being chaotically busy\u2014it can be down to being out of alignment with yourself<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
There is no quick fix to burnout\u2014take slow turtle steps and create space for yourself<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Reprioritise your day by focusing on the smaller things<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Learn to rest your mind and body<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
A book that will lead you back to your values<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Be honest with your clients\u2014they will respect and support your decisions, even if it means not working with them anymore<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Make sure you\u2019re starting a side hustle for the right reasons<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Identity crises are normal because we are constantly changing and evolving as people<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Slow organic growth will help to keep your business authentic<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Changing your mindset to stop the constant quest for more<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
You have all the answers inside you\u2014and a life coach can help bring them to the surface<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Listen to your body as it\u2019ll show you the warning signs of burnout<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Put your phone away and get yourself outside in nature<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Stick to your values and success will come to you<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Kate Bassett:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Emma Gannon:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Inspired by this small business story?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Want to know more about The Success Myth, Substack or Emma Gannon?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
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