Setting up your crowdfunding campaign<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I feel like congratulations, double congratulations, are in order because you\u2019ve just had a baby, and you\u2019ve just massively exceeded your crowdfunding target.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So two massive accomplishments in very, very short space of time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So tell us a bit about how you are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m good. Yeah, I had a baby five, well six weeks ago, she\u2019ll be six weeks on Thursday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I had a little girl called Elektra. She\u2019s doing really well, and I\u2019m doing really well, and that came quite soon after the crowdfunding. Good timing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It would\u2019ve been quite stressful to do both of them at the same time, but I\u2019m doing really well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And the crowdfunding journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So how long was the build-up to actually getting that campaign up and running, and tell me a little bit about why you chose that particular route?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So crowdfunding is something that Jeremy and I have always discussed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve always thought that it would be a brilliant thing to do because we love the way it democratises investing, and it allows really anyone to get involved because the entry into being able to invest is relatively low, \u00a350 was our entry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve always loved the idea of how it brings so many brand ambassadors on board your journey. So it\u2019s always been something that we\u2019ve toyed with, and it just felt like this was the right time to do it for this investment round, which was our third investment round.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
In true NICE fashion, one of our core values is to do things in dog years. So it\u2019s to do things quite quickly. So I think we decided about a month before that we were really going to go for it, and then we managed to pull everything together really quickly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s amazing because you\u2019ve got so much data that you\u2019ve got to pull up, and you\u2019ve got to do your promo video, and you\u2019ve got to get all your ducks in a row.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So that\u2019s quite an accomplishment to do it all in one month.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It was maybe a tiny bit longer, but yeah, we just get stuff done so fast and the moment we decided to do it, it was a real divide and conquer with the marketing team as to who does what.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Obviously, the promo video was the main thing that we put the focus behind, but then actually there\u2019s so much stuff that has to go on behind the scenes with the preparing all of the documents with all of the due diligence that takes place on your business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It is such a huge amount of due diligence that takes place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So there was a lot of behind-the-scenes work, which actually my amazing business partner, Jeremy, looked after all of that because investment rounds is a real area of the business that he always leads on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Raising a million in crowdfunding<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So Lisa, I think you were looking to raise \u00a3750,000, and you ended up raising a million.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How did that happen? How did that feel?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It was great. I think it\u2019s a really big ambition for a lot of brands that raise to go over their target, and it felt really good, and it felt really exciting. I think the key with crowdfunding campaigns is that you need to get a lot of momentum behind them at the beginning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So you need to have raised a lot of money at the beginning, and then you really start to get that momentum, and then it\u2019s that sort of FOMO. You get other people that see that it\u2019s doing really well and that they then come on board.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it felt really good, and it was so interesting hearing from some of the people that invested and why they invested. And I actually did a real live crowdfunding event with Seedrs, who we raised with, and it was amazing seeing some of them come along to that event.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And what was exciting at NICE was a big ambition for NICE with this raise, was that we really wanted to bring more females into investing because there\u2019s such a big gender gap when it comes to investing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Only 14% of angel investors in the UK are women. So the narrative that we were putting out there was all around encouraging more females to invest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And what we were really pleased with, with this campaign was the normal split on Seedrs is about 80% men and 20% women, and we ended up being about 50% of each.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it was really exciting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You can literally see each person invest, you can see the names and people can leave you notes. And it was really exciting for us, especially not only raising more than we set out to do, but seeing how many women came on board. That was great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Encouraging more women to invest in the wine industry<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And you said that you had some feedback from the people who were backing your campaign. What did they say? What was it that convinced them to buy your shares?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
First and foremost it\u2019s around business performance, it really is, and I think we have grown so much in three years. We have done so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We have always been a business that\u2019s really proud of smashing all of our targets, so they could really see that the business was in growth. And so I think if I was investing, that\u2019s obviously first and foremost what I would look at, I would look at the growth and the financials.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then I think other things that people loved about us and from meeting some of our investors, it was that narrative around encouraging more women to invest. It was being a really strong female first business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The wine industry is maybe 90% male dominated, but our team is really proudly 80% women, 75% of our leadership team are women. We\u2019re 50% female owned. So it was that. And then I think also people love that we are here to disrupt a really old, stuffy, quite dated category that\u2019s very intimidating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think we\u2019ve probably all in our life been made to feel a bit intimidated by wine, whether we\u2019ve been handed the wine menu, and we don\u2019t understand anything on it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we panic pick the Pinot Grigio because we know we tried it once on holiday, and we like it or whether we\u2019re in the aisle of Tesco, and we just go for the whatever\u2019s on promotion.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think people love what we\u2019re doing for wine, that we\u2019re breathing new life into it, and we are creating a brand that is far more inclusive and takes ourselves far less seriously. And people can see that from our marketing campaigns, from us wearing pink jumpsuits.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think there are a number of reasons why people invested. But from speaking to people that did, I think those are some of the main ones.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to turn a consumer into a brand advocate<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Because that\u2019s key, isn\u2019t it? You\u2019ve created a real army of fans, and nothing really says that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Like the fact that you have a merchandise tab on your website, so people come on your website to buy your wine and also will take away some sunglasses, a hat, a bag.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How do you achieve that sort of status? How do you turn someone from a fan of your product to a massive brand advocate?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Is there a lot of PR involved? How did you do it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Well, I think for us, it\u2019s all about the fact that we are really solving a consumer headache. So if wine was invented right now today, would it be put into a heavy glass bottle that you need a different implement to be able to open it with?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The answer to that question is 100% no. We live in a world where you can order your groceries on an Alexa, but we still live in a world where you go to the park, and you forget the corkscrew, so then you have to smash open the bottle of wine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It doesn\u2019t think about the consumer wine, it really doesn\u2019t. It\u2019s stuck in this quite old school way of thinking. If you remember when the screw cap was invented, the wine industry just went completely crazy, but actually the screw cap is far more convenient and is now the norm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think we\u2019ve created that brand love because we are actually solving a consumer headache. The can is so much more convenient, and we don\u2019t just sell canned wine anymore. We\u2019ve got boxed wine, we\u2019ve got wine on tap.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re really focused on always solving the consumer headache and always thinking about what is the perfect liquid and what is the perfect vessel for that wine moment. So I think that\u2019s one reason.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But then I think also people have fallen in love with our tone of voice with the way we do market our products. We live by a mantra, which is all around big budget energy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So at NICE, we are very good at taking really small budgets and blowing them up and making it look like we spend lots of money, but we actually haven\u2019t. And we take to the streets of London with our flash mob giving out free wine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We really think outside the box when it comes to marketing our product. And I think that\u2019s a big reason why people fall in love with our business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Revolutionising the wine industry<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And you\u2019ve mentioned that the wine industry, it\u2019s quite stuffy, it\u2019s quite antiquated.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then you and Jeremy burst on the scene with this whole new concept.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Was there much pushback and was it challenging or was it actually just really refreshing for a lot of people in the industry that you had had this new concept?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s a great question and I always loved being asked that question because there are some really interesting different answers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So when I first decided to launch a canned wine business, my father was actually in the wine industry. He sadly died when I was 19, which is so sad for so many reasons.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But I always just think how much he would love to see what I\u2019m doing in the industry. But when I first came up with the idea, it was back in 2017, 2018, I really didn\u2019t know how to go about entering the wine industry and talking to vineyards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I remember ringing some of his friends and I remember them all saying to me, they definitely fit the bill of the old school, quite stereotypical wine guy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
They said to me, \u201cDon\u2019t do this. Canned wine will never work. Someone tried it 10 years ago, don\u2019t do it, it won\u2019t work.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Luckily, I didn\u2019t listen to them, don\u2019t take all advice. And it\u2019s really nice, actually, they\u2019ve all contacted me since, and they\u2019ve said, \u201cThank goodness you didn\u2019t listen to me as a stuffy old man in the wine world. Thank goodness you went for it because it\u2019s been great to see the category grow, and it\u2019s been great to see NICE at the forefront of that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So that was one of the more negative pieces of advice at the beginning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But look, what\u2019s been really, really refreshing is we\u2019ve entered the world of wine as this very pink orientated female ledge, challenger, do things differently brand and the industry has been really welcoming on the whole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019ve sat in meetings with people that have been in the industry for 40 years, and they say, \u201cLook, it\u2019s great to have you here in your pink jumpsuit. If I was told 20 years ago, I\u2019d be sitting with this brand NICE in their pink jumpsuits changing the way the world wines with canned wine, I never would\u2019ve believed it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But they can all recognise that the industry needs change, it needs modern life breathing into it in order to recruit younger consumers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So on the whole, I have felt so welcomed and supported by the industry and I think that they think brands like NICE existing is a really brilliant thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Investing crowdfunding money into new product launches<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And tell me about your product range because you\u2019ve got three, you\u2019ve got the Sauvignon Blanc, you\u2019ve got a red and you\u2019ve got a dry rose and you\u2019ve stuck to these for a little while now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So what\u2019s the thinking about keeping the product range quite small and concentrated and will that change?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
It will, yes. And it is changing at the moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we started with canned wine, we\u2019ve got a Pale rose from the south of France, a Sauvignon Blanc from C\u00f4tes de Gascogne, and an Argentinian Malbec. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
And really, we launched those flavours based on consumer research that we did, and then also based on digging into some data and seeing which great varieties are the most popular.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re quite a data-led business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We are adding a Spanish Sauvignon Blanc and a French Merlot to the range, and we\u2019ve also extended the range beyond cans. So we saw further opportunities to provide a better wine option for consumers. And we\u2019ve got 2.25 litre bag in box.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve also launched wine on tap, so just imagine beer on tap when you go to the pub, and you have a pint of beer you can now go and have wine on tap. And then we\u2019ve just launched a sparkling, it\u2019s literally launching next week.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then we\u2019ve got an entire new product range coming out in September, which we\u2019re all very excited about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Which is that I\u2019m fascinated to know that you are introducing a sparkling wine because I was wondering why is there no Prosecco, the massive Prosecco boom where people are just crazy about sparkling wines? And that\u2019s fascinating that you\u2019re like right now we are going to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Did you wait to launch it because there were some technical issues in doing it in a can? Or did you just decide that now was the best time for other reasons?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so it is something that we\u2019ve always wanted to do from the beginning and actually being honest, we would love to do a Prosecco in a can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019d also love to do a champagne in a can, but you can\u2019t actually can Prosecco or champagne because they\u2019re protected by those regions because they\u2019re obviously such a huge part of the economy in France and Italy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019ve gone for a sparkling Spanish wine, and it came about because our customers have been pestering us for the last three years, and they\u2019ve said, when are you guys going to launch a sparkling in a can?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And so finally we managed to convince Jeremy, he\u2019d take a little bit of convincing that there was enough customer demand to create a sparkling. So it will just be a range extension, so it will just sit alongside the red, white and rose in lots of our customers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And is that why you did the crowdfunding round? Was that partly to fund all these new products?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
The crowdfunding money will be used to invest into four main growth areas and yes, you\u2019re completely right. One of them is new product launches.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s the launch of sparkling, but it\u2019s actually the launch of an entire new range that we have coming out in September, which is still a little bit top secret. We\u2019re not such a top-secret company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re actually very open about what we share, but this is a little bit top secret, and this is a product range that has definitely taken a bit more capital. So that\u2019s what the crowdfunding will be used for. It\u2019s also going to be used for international expansion and then growing our team of major hustlers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to expand your business internationally and sustainably<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Major hustlers. I love it. Can you tell us a bit about the international expansion?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Because obviously you are such an established brand here in the UK, but are you looking to go into France, into Italy, places where wine drinking, you\u2019re going to have a lot of competition?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Tell me about that particular strategy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yes, of course. So Jeremy, my co-founder\u2019s entire experience before NICE was all around building food and drink brands in international markets, mainly the European markets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So he did that for businesses like Propercorn, Pip & Nut, Vita Coco. So I think everyone\u2019s thought that NICE would go international and immediately because that is, Jeremy is the master of that, he\u2019s one of the best people at that in the UK, hence why he\u2019s worked for some of those brilliant brands.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But his approach has been a lot more strategic and a lot slower. He describes businesses that do quite a spray and prey approach when it comes to international expansion, and it isn\u2019t so sustainable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So he\u2019s been very focused on us building a really strong case study in the UK before we go into any international market. So it\u2019s only now that he\u2019s just starting to put the feelers out there because we have built this really strong UK case study.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So his approach is to just pick off a few markets and just test and trial and go a bit slower and really make them work before we go everywhere. So it\u2019s this year that NICE will start to enter Europe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
He\u2019s actually presenting the strategy to the business relatively soon, so we\u2019ll get more of an idea on which markets he\u2019s looking at. And I think by the end of the year we\u2019ll be in a couple, and then we\u2019ll build on that year after year.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Because I suppose no matter where you go, you are still a brand-new innovation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So even if you are launching in the champagne region with your wines, people are still going to say, \u201cHey, this is really handy. I can have a chilled can of wine when I\u2019m out having a picnic.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s still the same consumer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I think what we\u2019ll do is we\u2019ll pick, well, he will pick the European countries that are really focused on sustainability.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So for example, the Nordics would be a really, really great place to start. I think 95% of the wine consumed there is from a bag in a box, which is amazing. It\u2019s only 25% in the UK.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think the approach will be the really sustainably led countries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You can market alcohol responsibly and still keep it fun<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Oh, that\u2019s really interesting. And you are running an alcohol business at a time when the data shows that sobriety\u2019s on the rise. There are a lot of interesting trends around drinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So how do you grow an alcohol business while still preaching responsible drinking and seeing a lot of young people who are now reaching 18 and are not drinking alcohol?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How do you balance all those interesting factors?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, it\u2019s a really great question. So there are a couple of things to say on that point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So first of all, our new product range that I\u2019ve hinted at a lot definitely plays into the data around drinking less, moderating. So watch this space on that one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But the drinking responsibly is a really interesting one, and it\u2019s something that we\u2019ve had some really strong opinions on from the beginning because you do see quite a few alcohol businesses out there, even just showing visuals of the people downing their drinks and it being poured all over them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And we\u2019ve just always been really careful at NICE with regard to the visuals that we show and the language that we use to always just be trying to not encourage binge-drinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019ve just always been really careful, and we\u2019ve had conversations in the office if we think we\u2019re maybe on the cusp of always that a little bit encouraging binge-drinking, we just won\u2019t do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
No, that\u2019s really interesting having to be, because you\u2019re sustainable, you\u2019re looking at disruption, but you\u2019re also trying to get people to drink responsibly, enjoy the brand and have it be something fun and playful rather than something that ends up being a bit toxic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, because drinking is great, isn\u2019t it? It\u2019s the way you relax with friends. It\u2019s the way I know that the weekend\u2019s here because I\u2019ll have a glass of wine on a Friday night.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are so many positives.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Establishing the right connections and building relationships<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And I first spoke to you many moons ago when you were running a completely different company. You were running Cuckoo Bircher Muesli.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So tell me about that business and what lessons you learned and how Cuckoo has helped you make a success of NICE.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so Cuckoo was my first baby. It was the business I launched fresh out of university with absolutely zero business experience. I don\u2019t think I even knew what a margin was.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think naivety, when you\u2019re setting up a business, is a really brilliant thing because it means that you create your own ways of doing things, which I think can be great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And we certainly did that, and we certainly do that at NICE. It taught me so much. It was four years of the best business school that I ever could have gone to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It made me fall in love with FMCG, the food and drink industry. It made me fall in love with sales. It gave me a really good understanding of business, and it gave me a really good understanding of the UK market, how you take a product, and you launch it into many different sales channels.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I really look back at that business. It wasn\u2019t a success in the end. We eventually ended up selling it, which it wasn\u2019t some big glamorous exit, but I have no regrets with it because it just doing it the second time around with NICE and having everything that I\u2019d learned at Cuckoo.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Don\u2019t get me wrong, it\u2019s still challenging. You\u2019re still fighting fires every day, but it is brilliant getting the chance to do it again because you do make lots of mistakes the first time around. You just don\u2019t have as much knowledge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And it did just feel like such a different journey this time around.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
For example, I was better connected. So when we were going to start to speak to retailers with NICE, we already had the relationships there, with Sainsbury\u2019s, we already had the relationships there, with Selfridges.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s so hard getting buyers\u2019 attention, but if you already know someone, because buyers move around a lot, and I\u2019d previously worked with Sainsbury\u2019s, just helping you get that foot in the door was great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And raising money was a little bit easier because we had the connections, we just knew what we were doing, we knew what we were doing, so we didn\u2019t make so many mistakes, and we were also able to get NICE set up faster from it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How to be persistent yet patient when approaching retailers<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And on that point about reaching buyers and getting listings, I know that with NICE you already had those relationships, but maybe if we look at Cuckoo, for anyone who\u2019s listening, who thinks how on earth does she do it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How did she forge those relationships in the first place?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Can you give any advice, like a couple of tips on how you get in front of the right people, how you get your products on these shelves, at these shelves, at major retailers?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
I think first and foremost, it\u2019s all around the customer\u2019s needs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I\u2019ve seen in the past, I\u2019ve helped lots of entrepreneurs with how they email a buyer or how they communicate with a buyer. And I think a really common mistake that people make is they make it all about them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
They tell the whole story of how they set up the business and why they set up the business. And the buyer doesn\u2019t really care about that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s lovely, it\u2019s a nice to know, it\u2019s not a need to know, but they are not focused on what\u2019s important to the buyer. And essentially what\u2019s important to the buyer is making money, bringing new people into the category.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s really about understanding the buyer, and it\u2019s really around using language which really hits on those customer needs. So that\u2019s one point. The second point is in this day and age, I think buyers probably get, I can\u2019t even imagine 200 emails a day from people trying to sell their products.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So you\u2019ve really got to do stuff to stand out because the buyer doesn\u2019t have enough time to look at all of those emails. They\u2019ve got to do their job, which is looking after all of their existing suppliers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So you\u2019ve got to do things to stand out. Some of the things we\u2019ve done at NICE, I\u2019ve waited outside the Sainsbury\u2019s head office for three hours to try and get hold of my buyer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019ve sent random, we do something at NICE called Attention Grabs. So when we have buyers ignoring us once a quarter, we\u2019ll send some really cool, like on Valentine\u2019s Day, we did a personalised Tony\u2019s Chocolonely chocolate bar, which had really fun tone of voice around, please don\u2019t ignore us, it\u2019s Valentine\u2019s Day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019ll do quite fun things to stand out from the crowd. If there\u2019s a trade show going on, and I know that there\u2019s as a buyer I\u2019ve been trying to get a hold of, I\u2019ll go, and I\u2019ll wait to speak to them for six hours. Someone from my team did that this weekend, and they\u2019ve just won a listing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s not just about email, it\u2019s all about standing out from the crowd.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But then also my third point is it\u2019s all about persistence, but it\u2019s, you\u2019ve got to get that balance right of persistence and knowing when to give people space. It\u2019s not about emailing or ringing that buyer every day, that would annoy them. You\u2019ve got to get that balance right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You\u2019ve got to know the number of times you can chase them, but then you\u2019ve got to know, and you\u2019ve got to give them space to get on with their job because they\u2019ve got lots going on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And I think that\u2019s something we\u2019re really good at doing at NICE. We\u2019ve had a lot of people say to us, \u201cI really appreciate your persistence. You\u2019ve done it in a really patient way.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And it sets you up for what you\u2019re like to work with, doesn\u2019t it? Because people want to work with great people that don\u2019t annoy them and do things in the right way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And then my fourth point, I really could go on about this question for so long. I think it\u2019s all about, I love teaching empathetic selling.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s what I mentioned before. It\u2019s all about understanding, these guys are busy, they\u2019ve got a lot going on. You\u2019ve got to really go about things in the right way, understand they\u2019ve got a lot going on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So that comes out in the language we use when we are chasing a buyer. We say, look, I know you\u2019ve got loads going on, I\u2019m just following up on this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So it\u2019s all about being really empathetic in the way that you sell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
These are all just brilliant pieces of advice. And I think that approach works not just with buyers, but with anybody.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Whether you are dealing with journalists or partners or literally any business connection, you can employ these tactics to have a more empathetic and profound relationship with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I think that\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Competition is healthy as it helps to grow your market<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And then I just wanted to know about how you are dealing with competition, because I see NICE as being just the standout wine in a can brand, wine in cool, wine in a box brand that changed my perception about wine in boxes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
When you\u2019re a kid, there was a certain negative connotation with box wine, and now it\u2019s cool, but now loads of other brands are moving into this space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So do you watch them? How closely do you watch them? How do you deal with competition?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, it\u2019s a really good question. And we love competition is the one-line answer. We have a really set rule at NICE and this is in our handbook.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So when you join NICE you get given a handbook, and it\u2019s all around our behaviours and the way we live. And we have a very firm rule at NICE that you never trash talk the competition. I think it\u2019s such a bad look when other brands will say, \u201cOh, that brand\u2019s a bit rubbish.\u201d It just doesn\u2019t look good.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We never trash talk the competition. We think the competition is amazing because without the competition we wouldn\u2019t be growing the category together. And it is all about growing the category together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re actually friends with lots of our competition. So just to give a shout-out to some of the other can wine brands. You\u2019ve got Canvino, which are the guys that do the amazing sparkling wine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Mark, the founder there. He and I chat loads. We\u2019ve chatted on Instagram to other canned wine brands commenting on their photos.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think when lockdown was happening, we even did a shout-out to all of the other canned wine brands because it was such a difficult time for businesses to encourage customers to buy those brands.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we obviously want to still be the best, but we think competition\u2019s really great and really healthy, and we\u2019re totally here for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Wow, that is definitely the first time on this podcast that we\u2019ve had a business owner give a shout-out to the competition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
This is a beautiful modern approach to business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The evolution of NICE and becoming a B Corp company<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And on that point, you guys were going to become a B Corp, is that right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Tell me a little bit about your plans for the evolution of NICE beyond products, but as an actual entity and why you\u2019re going in that B Corp direction.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
So we are not actually B Corp yet, Bex, but we are just going through the accreditation at the moment, and we really hope, we\u2019re at the final stages of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We really hope that we should be B Corp this year. What\u2019s great about B Corp and it also now quite annoying if you\u2019re going through B Corp is the process is so long. But that is because so many businesses are applying to be B Corp.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So all in all, it\u2019s a really great thing. I love seeing how many food and drink businesses are also becoming B Corp. I think it\u2019s just going to become a hygiene factor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019re really excited about that. And in terms of what\u2019s next for NICE, so we\u2019ve got a really clear ambition at NICE. We want to change the way the world wines. We want to put consumers first. We want to do that in a really fun, far more inclusive way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So for us, what\u2019s coming next is we\u2019ve obviously got new products coming out later on this year. And then beyond that, I don\u2019t know, we\u2019ll be very driven by what consumers want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ll be very driven by data. We\u2019ve still got a huge amount of UK market to go after. We\u2019ve only just launched some of our product ranges. Wine on tap is really just at the beginning. We\u2019ve got a real first to market advantage on that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019re really hoping for some pretty big things with that, which look like they could be coming this year.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We want to keep being a great business to work at. We have a really firm rule that we don\u2019t ever work with recruiters because we hope that we\u2019ve built a great reputation whereby people want to come and work with our business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We want to keep having fun doing what we\u2019re doing. We\u2019ve got some really awesome marketing plans this year. Summer is really our moment. We\u2019ve got some great things coming there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And yeah, I still want to wake up every morning and literally cannot wait to open my laptop because I love what I\u2019m doing. And that mission of really changing the way the world wines is really what drives me every day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Where to get your consumer data from<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And just a quick question about that because you\u2019ve mentioned data a few times and that point about tracking what consumers want and creating the products that the market really requires.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Where do you get your data? Are you paying thousands of pounds for Mintel reports? Are you doing focus groups?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How are you getting that absolutely vital data?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yes. So we buy category grocery data from Kantar. So that is something that we invest in. We are very good at negotiating at NICE.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we\u2019ve got the best possible deal that we can on that. But it is an investment. But we\u2019ve actually done that from day one. And I think it\u2019s really important for food and drink businesses to do that. It\u2019s only worth doing once you are in groceries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So once you are in the supermarkets, but we know exactly where we sit within the category. We know our market share. We can see week on week or month on month exactly how much we\u2019re growing and also what businesses are in decline.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And that really helps your conversations with other grocers because you can just go and show them exactly what\u2019s going on when it comes to on trade data.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So what I mean by on trade is pubs, festivals, theatres, cinemas, which is a massive area for NICE. It\u2019s really difficult to buy data, it just doesn\u2019t really exist. And the data that does exist is very expensive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So there we beg, we borrow, we steal, we just do whatever we can to get our hands on it. But I think investing in data and really understanding the market is definitely not something that we did, I did at Cuckoo, in my first business. It\u2019s just not really something I have much awareness on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And it\u2019s definitely something that we do at NICE, and we do it really well, and we\u2019re really all over it when it comes to the data, and it just really helps your conversations with investors, with key stakeholders, with buyers as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Balancing your business and your newborn baby<\/h2>\n\n\n\nBex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
And final question, Lucy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we mentioned at the start of this call that you\u2019ve really, you\u2019ve just had a baby just a few weeks ago, and yet here you are at work, the light ring on, podcast mic at the ready.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Can you just give a bit of advice to anyone else, another female founder, on how you are going to manage these two incredibly weighty responsibilities, business, and baby, how you\u2019re going to find balance, how are you going to get enough support because you are obviously still so passionate about the business, you\u2019re not taking a step back?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How are you going to do both of these things?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Lucy Busk:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, well it\u2019s very new to me. This is my first baby, and then I\u2019ve got my baby that is NICE. And I spent a lot of time before I had my baby speaking to other female founders who had also had babies because I wanted to get advice on what they\u2019d done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And one of the things I love about food and drink is how open it is and how people share. So I got a lot of advice from Emma Hill, from Lucky saying, who I\u2019m sure you know Bex.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And she helped me, Amber, from Brave. I was really lucky that Pip Murray from Pip & Nut was having a baby at the same time as me. So we were able to help each other and share advice and be real sounding boards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And all of those women said to me, just don\u2019t worry. You are going to be able to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Maybe don\u2019t go and speak to other women that don\u2019t run businesses, their own businesses and don\u2019t have babies because they might give you contradictory advice, but my advice to you is you\u2019re going to be fine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We did it. You are going to be absolutely fine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I would sit down with them and understand what their plans were and that would shape my plan. But then also my probably the biggest secret is that I am really lucky that I married the most supportive man. I married an amazing guy called Benji, who\u2019s a farmer, and he very much puts my career first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
He\u2019s a very modern man. And so we\u2019ve set things up whereby I don\u2019t have to step away from the business, and he\u2019s there on hand to help and support.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And when I do go back to work full time in August, September, he\u2019s going to be the lead parent. He\u2019s going to be the ones getting our daughter up in the morning and looking after her in the day whilst I can go off to work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So I feel very lucky and grateful that I married such an amazing guy that can support me fully with that. And then also Jeremy, my co-founder, and my team, they\u2019ve been really supportive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m the first one at work to have a baby. I did my team meeting this morning. I had her in my arms. I was feeding her and I\u2019m owning it. I\u2019m taking her to meetings like that. I\u2019ll take her into the office.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I\u2019m just juggling it all and making it work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Inspired by this small business story?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to Sound Advice on Apple iTunes<\/a> here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We are also on Spotify<\/a> and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Join our community to share your insights and stories on Twitter @SageIreland<\/a> using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram @SageOfficial<\/a> or in the comments below!<\/p>\n\n\n\n You can find out more on Lucy on her Instagram<\/a> or LinkedIn<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n For more on NICE drinks, check out their website<\/a> or drop them a follow-on Instagram<\/a> or Twitter<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \n Get your free guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template to help you manage your business and achieve your goals.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Join 1.5 million subscribers and get the best business admin strategies and tactics, as well as actionable advice to help your company thrive, in your inbox every month.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tWant to know more about Lucy Busk or NICE drinks?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
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