{"id":7763,"date":"2021-08-24T10:00:41","date_gmt":"2021-08-24T09:00:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/?p=7763"},"modified":"2026-01-07T13:40:30","modified_gmt":"2026-01-07T13:40:30","slug":"sound-advice-startup-feel-the-fear-jess-gohl","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-startup-feel-the-fear-jess-gohl\/","title":{"rendered":"How to build your business on Instagram"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Her university tutor told her she was \u2018too business minded\u2019. Her parents said she was mad. But that didn\u2019t stop her from becoming a small business success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today, we are meeting the brilliant Jess Gohl, founder of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.burnttoastdesigns.co.uk\/\">Burnt Toast Designs<\/a>, a branding design and content studio based in Buckinghamshire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>She is a one-woman powerhouse working with some big-name brands and an impressive client base. Here, she tells us how she built this clever and creative business from the ground up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Scroll down for the advice:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#network-anchor-link\">Network, network, network<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#turn-anchor-link\">Turn your creativity into business ideas<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#instagram-anchor-link\">Instagram is a great marketing channel for creatives<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#get-anchor-link\">Get trained with Excel<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#find-anchor-link\">Find common ground with customers<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#personal-anchor-link\">Get personal in your lead generation<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#provide-anchor-link\">Provide customers with as much information as you can<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#learn-anchor-link\">Learn from experienced professionals in your industry<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#take-anchor-link\">Take time out where necessary<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#creatives-anchor-link\">Unfortunately, creatives sometimes have to justify their prices<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"#invest-anchor-link\">Invest in photography<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"#gate-1a953aef-c126-42e1-a130-e0fbefd38b65\">Download your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"network-anchor-link\">Network, network, network<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Jess, can we start right at the beginning? How did you set about getting this business off the ground, and what prompted you to do that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019ve always done little bits of freelance design and branding, but I wanted more freedom. I\u2019ve always wanted to have my own business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>However, I went for it totally at the wrong time because it was a week before the word \u2018Covid\u2019 appeared. But I had to do it and ran with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Touch wood, it has all worked out for the best.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So tell me what processes you followed. What did you do first?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I refined what I wanted to do. I loved taking something from research through to seeing it complete. I reached out to everyone and anyone I knew in the industries I wanted to work with. I networked and talked to everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If a friend mentioned they knew someone with an interior design studio or needed help with graphic design or something like that, I made sure that I contacted everyone and said, \u201cHi, I\u2019m here. This is what I\u2019m doing now.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I got so many responses, which was great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>When you say networking, how does that look? Does that look like sending messages over LinkedIn? Does that mean taking people out for coffee?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How did you network?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I made sure that I had someone\u2019s email, but personal email rather than info and enquiries addresses. I always made sure I had a contact, whether that was through LinkedIn or elsewhere.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Quite often, it was through previous work experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of my clients, who I work with now, has a very successful interior design business. She\u2019s just set up her online shop, but she\u2019s got an interior design studio.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I met her through my first waitressing job, where she was the events manager, and we\u2019ve stayed in touch ever since.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>She reached out to me on Instagram when I said I was doing my new Burnt Toast Design creative studio and showed all my offerings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think it\u2019s so important to keep these people in your life, even if it\u2019s not your personal life, but you follow what they do. I\u2019d always followed her and the fantastic work she was doing with her interior design.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It just all fell into place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You think you\u2019re never going to meet someone when you\u2019re 16 waitressing, but it turns out you do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That feeds into this whole idea of following your passion because if you\u2019re passionate about what you do for your business, you\u2019re pretty likely to have a network that includes a lot of people that are also into the same stuff or to have at least a pretty good grasp of the wider industry you love.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, definitely. I found the experience of working I\u2019ve gained over the years valuable. My university degree encouraged everyone to go out and get work experience and internships to find out what you do and don\u2019t want to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think it\u2019s so hard to work out what you want to do at such a young age. But I know a couple of weeks\u2019 work experience allowed me to do a few things I knew straight away weren\u2019t for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"turn-anchor-link\">Turn your creativity into business ideas<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Jess, talk to me about bread. Your company name is Burnt Toast. There\u2019s a whole thing about baking on your website, and then you also talk about your infamous bread prints. I want to know all about how it fits into your life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019ve always loved baking and always created the most random bakes. My dad gets the wackiest bakes for his birthday. Bless him. Even though I know he just likes simple banana bread.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>My bread prints came about in my final year of uni. It was when my tutors told me I was too business-minded for the course.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In my final year, before my final major project, they sat me down and said, \u201cJess, you\u2019re not artsy enough. You\u2019re not creative enough. You\u2019re too focused on business.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I thought, \u201cRight, how can I be super deeper arty and creative?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For my final major project, I had to analyse and experiment with all sorts of crazy arty stuff. I thought conceptualising stuff like that was beyond my capabilities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the baker in me thought of bread and dough. So I painted a slice of bread, printed it, and made a whole book on all these different pieces of bread.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I raided every supermarket for every single type of bread. I\u2019ve got the photos of me walking through this trolley full of bread, looking like an absolute madwoman.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It was in my final exhibition where one of my tutors who told me that I was too business-minded came over to me and said, \u201cCan I buy your prints?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I thought, \u201cYes, success. I\u2019ve proved to them that I can be creative and arty, so I\u2019m going to turn it into a business and sell this art.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I set up my Burnt Toast Instagram, and I sell them. And people love them. I think they\u2019re a bit mad, but they\u2019re very popular.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I can\u2019t believe they said you were too business-minded. What are you supposed to do with all your talent once you finish your degree? You\u2019re supposed to go out in the world, do art and not make a living?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>They were proactive about telling us to get internships and work experience, but they centred it around graphic design.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I said I\u2019m going to go and get work experience at British Airways, they looked at me as if they were asking, why would you want to do that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I just thought British Airways as a brand and with such heritage was so interesting. And I wanted to learn about it. And I wanted to annoy my tutors and teachers even more because I was very good at annoying them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I wrote my dissertation on airline branding.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So, you narrowed down exactly what you wanted to do and the kind of clients you wanted to work with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What came next? Was it a website? Was it social media?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How did you start building that customer base beyond the networking stuff?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"#gate-6403c820-b6b5-4d8c-bcbc-7b0e39c6a523\">Download your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"instagram-anchor-link\">Instagram is a great marketing channel for creatives<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I should have built my website first but did it in the background while running my social media. Instagram was the most significant thing\u201490% of my clients found me there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The website is now coming along slowly to full fruition.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Tell me about your strategy. It didn\u2019t feel at all like you were trying to promote yourself, but clearly, it works.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I wanted to create styled photography or packages that would be brand and visual communication, working from everything\u2014from a logo right through to how you visually communicate your brand across social media and on your website.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Everything that encompasses visual communication is what I do. I\u2019ve tried to show that on my Instagram.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>On Instagram, I\u2019m being myself and having that personal aspect, but I upload and tag photos with the brands I\u2019m working with. I provide packages where, for example, I\u2019ll work with a lifestyle brand that will send me loads of products and have some big strategy meetings.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We go through everything that they\u2019re targeting or where they want to target or tell me why this isn\u2019t selling and how we can make it sell. I\u2019ll go away and come up with a great strategy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\u2019ll do lots of visual mood boards, research through social media and get some analytics going, work out how we can pinpoint a sales point of view or a sales pitch. I will also do all the photography on top of that, and I will send them back all these files, which they\u2019ll have in the background to enhance their communication.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"get-anchor-link\">Get trained with Excel<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>In the last year and a half, what have you learned about yourself that you\u2019re not good at? What are the things you suddenly realise, \u201cI need some help with that,\u201d and how did you solve that issue?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Excel spreadsheets. My dad is a very clever businessman and is always on me. \u201cJess, have you sorted your spreadsheets out? Have you got all your costs right?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s good that he nags me, as I put it to the back of my mind because I don\u2019t want to deal with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But working out the finances, especially for my products, I did so much research I got so many quotes. It\u2019s things like that that have helped, and now I\u2019ve realised how essential spreadsheets are.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I would recommend doing any course on Excel, or if you\u2019ve got a friend that is an absolute whizz and uses it all the time in their job, ask them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"find-anchor-link\">Find common ground with customers<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you have a written <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-small-business-plan-sahar-hashemi\/\">business plan<\/a>? And if you do, how closely do you follow it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I have an idea of where I want everything to go, and I have these very extravagant business plans that I\u2019ve made just in case I get the opportunity to pitch it to an investor.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have my set, almost weekly to-do lists that I make sure I do\u2014even for all the boring admin stuff that\u2019s so important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Jess, can you tell me about any risks you\u2019ve taken since you started the business? Have you made any bold decisions that have paid off for you and Burnt Toast?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve taken any huge risks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I mean, going alone was a risk. Not having that steady income was a risk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>My parents said, \u201cWhat are you doing? You\u2019re mad.\u201d I felt like I needed to do it. It was the right time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I felt like I\u2019d got enough experience out of university and always knew that I would end up doing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I just thought, \u201cYou know what? You only live once. Do it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>You might not shout about your clients so much on Instagram, but it only takes a little bit of digging to see you\u2019ve worked for some quite big names like Timberland.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I saw Piglet\u2014I just drool all over all their sheets on Facebook ads all the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So how did those meetings come about? Did you track them down? Did they find you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How did you get in front of these brands?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Timberland found me through a couple of photos I\u2019d taken and then sent me a message on Instagram, which is so funny because you wouldn\u2019t think of it as a tool almost to find huge corporate brand business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it does work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Piglet is one of my biggest clients. I do a lot of work for Piglet. I reached out to them after I drove past their offices and saw their branding.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I thought, \u201cOh, I know them. I love all their stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I sent this probably too flowery email about how much I love their staff, ethos and everything they work towards. The founder and CEO, who\u2019s also called Jessica, emailed me straight back saying, \u201cI\u2019d love to work with you,\u201d and that was nearly a year ago now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That shows that sometimes you have to take the initiative.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There doesn\u2019t even have to be a job on offer. You could just speculatively get in touch and say, \u201cI love what you stand for. Let me do something for you.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now they\u2019re one of your biggest clients.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah, one of my biggest clients. I\u2019m so pro putting yourself out there. I think I\u2019m one of those people where I do come across as quite shy, but I\u2019m not scared about asking when it comes to business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think if you don\u2019t ask, you don\u2019t get.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The worst-case scenario would be they say no, or they don\u2019t reply to your email.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you don\u2019t put yourself out there and don\u2019t create these opportunities for yourself, then you\u2019re not going to get very far. You need to be constantly communicating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think communication is a crucial thing about any business, but especially a creative business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>You can talk about anything. I suppose what I\u2019m getting from you is that you have all these different connections, and you\u2019re not talking about what you can do for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You\u2019re just having a chat about things that you have in common or commenting on cool stuff they\u2019re doing, and that is the foundation for anything business-related and commercial that comes afterwards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Find common ground. Don\u2019t say, \u201cHere\u2019s my business card,\u201d but \u201cI\u2019ll pop you an email,\u201d or, \u201cCan I have your email?\u201d just to have that contact.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Something might never come of it, but you never know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"#gate-6403c820-b6b5-4d8c-bcbc-7b0e39c6a523\">Download your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"personal-anchor-link\">Get personal in your lead generation<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I want to pick up on that point about the emails because you said, \u201cI know if I haven\u2019t sent enough emails one week because it tends to be a bit slow.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So for anyone listening who\u2019s just starting or planning, how much time goes into lead generation? How many emails?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don\u2019t know if you can give me a figure, but how many do you have to send to make sure your pipeline is healthy?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Initially, I had a list of about 150 people, even if they weren\u2019t direct contacts. I knew that they had contacts for the right people I wanted to get in contact with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I sent out a personal email l to them. Make the email personal to the person and company you are sending the message to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There is nothing worse than opening an email or message on Instagram that you know has been copied and pasted. Never, ever do that, please.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I sent out a lot of emails. I went through and marked, \u201cYes, got a reply\u201d, \u201cYes, follow up\u201d, or \u201cNo, didn\u2019t hear from them. Maybe try again later\u201d, or a clear, \u201cNo, we\u2019re not interested.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019ll track if someone showed a little bit of interest on Instagram, for example.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I keep it at a very steady pace. I wouldn\u2019t say I send out that many these days. Maybe when I get a lead, I\u2019ll send an email out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Probably two or three a week at the moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m chasing, trying to tie them down to say, \u201cI want to work with you.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now I get people emailing me, which is excellent, and that\u2019s what I wanted. Initially, when I started, I thought, \u201cI wonder if any of these people would ever actually email me,\u201d and now they do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, I\u2019m getting there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"provide-anchor-link\">Provide customers with as much information as you can<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>How do you get the balance right between the number of clients?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because often when you work for yourself, there\u2019s a case of feast or famine. It\u2019s hard to say no. Often, clients want things now, and you maybe don\u2019t have as much time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So how do you keep that balance right, and how do you also make sure that you\u2019re not too reliant on one client?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>In the initial conversations, that initial email has every bit of information, \u201cThis is how long it will take. This is how I will do it. This is when we\u2019ll have our next call.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think you need to get to the point with stuff like that because otherwise, you will find yourself drowning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think it has that expectation as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You need to tell your clients, \u201cThis is how long it will take me. It\u2019s not going to take me a day to create your brand. This is what I do first. This is what I then do next.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s coming up with a timeline.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I always send out a timeline or a little \u2018how it works\u2019 document that I send out depending on what clients want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I personalise that after initial calls or emails.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s such a good idea about the how it works document, because you not only look professional, because I\u2019m presuming you send this thing out and it\u2019s got all your branding on it, but also it must save you time, as you\u2019re not trying to brief a client from scratch.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I always personalise it, and it is always different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The amount of work also everyone wants is entirely different. It could just be a logo, or it could be a complete branding and social media strategy that will stretch across six months to a year.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I completely tailor it, and I think the most important thing is keeping it personal to the brand and the person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"learn-anchor-link\">Learn from experienced professionals in your industry<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I want to ask you a bit about your influences because you\u2019ve mentioned your dad, who nags you about spreadsheets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So who has the most influence over you in business? Who\u2019s taught you the most, and what have you learned from them?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s been a mixture of personal relationships, friends and family.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know so many people who do so many different things, but I always find it interesting to chat to them about what they\u2019re doing, what they\u2019ve done this week or their work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>My godmother is an incredible designer\u2014she\u2019s always been a massive influence on me. She is a creative director for a massive advertising and design agency in London and globally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>She travels the world and works on these great projects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I was still at school, my highlight was when she\u2019d come around, and I\u2019d ask her, \u201cWhat have you been doing this week?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And she replied, \u201cOh. Well, I flew to New York from Monday to Thursday, and then I was in Brazil. Oh, and then I flew to Paris. And I\u2019m working on this project with this brand and this project with this brand.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I thought, \u201cWow. You are amazing.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I learned that the corporate working in these big agencies wasn\u2019t for me, but she still taught me so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>She brought me my first Mac for my 14th or 15th birthday. She\u2019d pinched it from her studio that was getting rid of all their old Macs and brought it home for my birthday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s stuff like that that I remember and I love.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019ve learned from people how to run a business, but I\u2019ve also learned how not to run a business and how not to treat employees. I\u2019ve been through the mill with some quite crazy MDs and things like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can sit back now. Even though I\u2019m only 26, I feel I\u2019ve experienced so much that I would know precisely how, if and when I ever get employees, how I would want to run that side of things as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"take-anchor-link\">Take time out where necessary<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Yeah. It\u2019s great to learn from bad bosses. We all have this list of what not to do, how not to treat people, how you don\u2019t want to be perceived.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Where does your work ethic come from?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because throughout this whole interview, it\u2019s become clear that you throw your all at everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I know from many conversations that I\u2019ve had with would-be founders, some of them have said they worry that they won\u2019t be able to motivate themselves, be disciplined enough or have the drive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, where does that come from in you? Is it innate? Have you worked on it? How did you create that work ethic?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I think I\u2019ve always had it in me. I\u2019ve always worked hard. I\u2019ve always taken criticism or failure to push me. My brother and sister will say, \u201cOh, she\u2019s always working,\u201d which is kind of true.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I worked hard at school. I wasn\u2019t necessarily the best at anything. I was very that run of the mill\u2014plodded along in the middle, minding my own business. But I took part in a lot of sport, and any extracurricular activity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I always like to be busy, but I have that side of me where I walk the dog for two hours, where I won\u2019t touch my phone, and have that time to chill. I am very one side business, and this personal side of, \u201cRight. I have my day off\u201d.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m pretty strict about it being a day off. I won\u2019t touch my laptop. I won\u2019t touch my phone unless it\u2019s to call a friend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Most startup founders are not very good at that. They would say that having a business becomes all-encompassing. But do you think you\u2019re able to do that because you\u2019re organised?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because clearly, you make sure that you meet your deadline, and you\u2019re not working until midnight the following day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Those two things go hand in hand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I am pretty particular about getting everything done. I can\u2019t relax if I know I\u2019ve got a big task. I\u2019m not one of those people that think, \u201cOh, my deadline is on Friday. I\u2019ll do an all-nighter on Thursday.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019ve never been that kind of person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m a morning worker. I would instead get up at 5am and work until 2pm, and I will be so much more productive than if I started at 4pm and didn\u2019t finish until 4pm the next day. I still would have got more done, having got up early to do it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think it was me working out how I worked, knowing the best ways to be productive and what works for me. I think it\u2019s different for everyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I know people who would rather lie in, have a bath, go to the gym, and then start work in the afternoon.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am useless in the afternoon and evening. I feel you can\u2019t get anything out of me from about 3pm until 7pm. Then maybe I\u2019ll have a look between 8pm and 9pm.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m the same between 3pm and 5pm. I\u2019ll keep going back for biscuits and tea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Can you tell me about a piece of work you\u2019ve done through Burnt Toast that you\u2019re most proud of?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I appreciate this question is a bit like making a parent choose their favourite child, but maybe one that stretched you creatively or commercially. Something that stands out as being a proud moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m working on a project at the moment that I\u2019m can\u2019t talk about, but that will be my proudest, I think.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think Piglet has been an enormous eye-opener\u2014it is what I want to be doing. I was so chuffed that I even was given the time of day to discuss working with them, let alone working for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Working for them has been hard work, and we\u2019ve put in many hours to bring everything together. You see all the pretty pictures as a result, but there\u2019s so much planning and logistics with the operational side of things, which takes up more time than the photoshoot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>When I\u2019ve sent them an invoice, and I think, OK, I\u2019ve earned that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes that\u2019s what you need. That quiet sense of satisfaction that it\u2019s a job well done and you\u2019re paid fairly for the work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"#gate-6403c820-b6b5-4d8c-bcbc-7b0e39c6a523\">Download your free side hustle toolkit, comprising a side hustle guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template<\/a><\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"creatives-anchor-link\">Unfortunately, creatives sometimes have to justify their prices<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>With the creative side of things, you sometimes have to justify your prices or your worth, which is the one thing that I do that is exhausting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I still do it now, justifying myself and proving what you can do almost before you\u2019ve done it to clear your quote.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That for me has been a big thing because sometimes, at the end of the day, after shutting my laptop, I have a moment to think\u2014why do people question my worth?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But once you\u2019ve shown them what you can do and show your clients your expertise, then they\u2019re more than happy to pay what you think you\u2019re worth also, which is excellent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>How did you set your pricing as a brand new business, and how much refinement did that take?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Did you have to move up and down a little bit in the beginning?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I based my prices on asking many people that I already knew who was freelancing, had freelanced in the past, or worked within that sort of creative marketing industry in terms of what they would expect to pay someone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I already had a rough idea, but I just wanted to put feelers out and check that it was.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>My feedback from everyone said, spot-on, that\u2019s fine. My most significant learning curve came to payments. Sending invoices and pricing, I make sure I take 50% upfront because I have been stung with one of my first branding clients.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had about four on the go, and three of them were absolute dreams to work for. But there was one that took my designs and ghosted me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>After a couple of weeks of emails, calling them and messaging them on Instagram, I saw that they were using all my designs and hadn\u2019t paid me. But of course, rookie Jess hadn\u2019t sent an initial invoice or deposit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was sending all my invoices after I\u2019d completed all the work. I went and got advice on how to deal with this situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I did manage to get a little bit of money out of them in the end, but not what would have been my total price. So, it technically cost me time, and that was a big wake up call for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"invest-anchor-link\">Invest in photography<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Do you mind if I ask you to share advice for anyone creative?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe they\u2019re an artist and decided to sell their watercolours, or maybe they embroider, and they are working up a side hustle, but they have a view to making that side hustle their main livelihood.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>My main piece of advice, which could be pretty controversial, is to invest in photography.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think these days, everything is online. Social media is your best friend when it comes to a small business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You need photography that will stand out, sell your product, and showcase to everyone what you\u2019re doing and what your service is. I think it\u2019s so important these days to find a local photographer, ask for quotes, and work with them to make it affordable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s not the obvious thing that springs to mind, but image is everything now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jess Gohl:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>I think there are so many online shops and dropshippers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you want to sell a product, you need to make it look nice, and you need to sell that product through that one image. You also need that lifestyle imagery to back it up. Make it pop out on a screen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Everyone\u2019s sat on their screens. Everyone\u2019s on a train bored, scrolling through Instagram on their way home from work, so make it stand out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Subscribe to <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/sound-advice-get-year-one-in-business-right\/id1544479344?_gl=1*uuzo36*_ga*MjA5NDY4NjE4OC4xNjE0NzM4MTI4*_ga_N0V23L0VEC*MTYyNDM1NjY3Mi4yLjAuMTYyNDM1NjY3NS4w\">Sound Advice on Apple iTunes here<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2yhPIOebSiBpEYek6q2GZJ?si=UWWTKrgIQ2OsUAlnHrzHTQ&amp;nd=1&amp;_gl=1*uuzo36*_ga*MjA5NDY4NjE4OC4xNjE0NzM4MTI4*_ga_N0V23L0VEC*MTYyNDM1NjY3Mi4yLjAuMTYyNDM1NjY3NS4w\">We are also on Spotify<\/a> and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We would love for you to join our community and share your insights and stories. Season two is coming up, and we would love to take your recommendations for guests or even some questions you would like me to ask in the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Let us know on <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/sageireland\">Twitter @SageIreland<\/a>&nbsp;using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram @SageOfficial at or in the comments below, and we will get back to you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you want to hear more from Jess, check out her bunny bags and bread prints on Instagram at <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/burnttoastdesigns\">@burnttoastdesigns<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"single-cta gated-content\">\n\t<div class=\"single-cta__positioner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__wrapper has-dark-background-color\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"single-cta__title h3\">Side hustle toolkit<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__description\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Get your free guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template to help you boss your side hustle and achieve your goals.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\t\t\t\thref=\"#gate-6403c820-b6b5-4d8c-bcbc-7b0e39c6a523\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"single-cta__button button button--primary\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t>Download your free toolkit<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1440\" height=\"810\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2022\/04\/GettyImages-1222451249-1440x810.jpg\" class=\"single-cta__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2022\/04\/GettyImages-1222451249-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 33vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"single-cta\">\n\t<div class=\"single-cta__positioner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__wrapper has-dark-background-color\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"single-cta__title h3\">Subscribe to the Sage Advice newsletter<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__description\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Join 1.5 million subscribers and get the best business admin strategies and tactics, as well as actionable advice to help your company thrive, in your inbox every month.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\t\t\t\thref=\"#gate-53abbdcc-410c-4c8c-bf97-ca5c6982eebd\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"single-cta__button button button--primary\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t>Subscribe now<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"999\" height=\"666\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/04\/z.5E3A0481_All-Uses.jpg\" class=\"single-cta__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/04\/z.5E3A0481_All-Uses.jpg 999w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 33vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Her university tutor told her she was &#8216;too business minded&#8217;. But that didn&#8217;t stop Jess Gohl from becoming a small business success.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1161,"featured_media":8581,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"audio","meta":{"_sage_video":false,"post_featured_image_hide":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[162],"tags":[132,332],"business_type":[5],"lilypad":[],"context":[],"industry":[],"persona":[232],"imagine_tag":[230,234],"coauthors":[439],"class_list":["post-7763","post","type-post","status-publish","format-audio","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growth-customers","tag-start-business","tag-sound-advice-podcast","post_format-post-format-audio","business_type-small-business"],"sage_meta":{"region":"en-ie","author_name":"Bex Burn-Callander","featured_image":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2022\/04\/Blog_Header_Image_17.jpg","imagine_tags":{"230":"Small business","234":"Start-up business"}},"distributor_meta":false,"distributor_terms":false,"distributor_media":false,"distributor_original_site_name":"Sage Advice Ireland","distributor_original_site_url":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog","push-errors":false,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7763","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/users\/1161"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7763"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7763\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/media\/8581"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7763"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"business_type","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/business_type?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"lilypad","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/lilypad?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"context","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/context?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"industry","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/industry?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"persona","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/persona?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"imagine_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/imagine_tag?post=7763"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=7763"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}