Pay attention to growing trends<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Use your business to challenge the change you want to see<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Broaden your horizons to find your passion<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n There will be a number of rejections before the breakthrough<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Prepare for the long haul\u2014 you can\u2019t build a business overnight<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Last-ditch efforts lead to last-minute flights<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Increase market penetration by offering a better product<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Research\u2014all the information you need is at your disposal<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n The moment you realise it can\u2019t just be a side hustle any more<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n A business named on luck, and built on it too<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n A lockdown followed by an on-trade shutdown<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Pivoting your business model could lead to an unexpected growth in sales<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Making mental health a priority in the workplace<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Don\u2019t feel like you have to wait to bring on a managing director<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n A growing team comes with a constant change of focus<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n First impressions and funny exchanges<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Are you doing Dry January or have you mastered the art of balance all year round?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, I did dry January four years ago, in 2018, and then one month rolled into three months and then three months rolled into a year, and I haven\u2019t really drunk since then, actually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So Dry January, funnily enough, is a huge moment for us as a business, but less of a moment for me personally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But that\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What\u2019s been the impact on your life? I suppose there\u2019s always an impact on the wallet from giving up all booze, but how has it changed you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think the reason I started was, this time four years ago, I was at a point in this journey where I was just about to quit my job.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I had developed the beer itself. The brand was in development, and it was time to go full time, and to take the big leap, as it were.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I\u2019d spent two years in development, and I\u2019d done that alongside an existing job. So I had that security, and all I had to do was work on one thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The first job was was it possible to brew the beer? And so that\u2019s all I focused on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I figured that out and then you move on to the next things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But there comes the moment where you actually need to jump and you need to say, \u201cRight, this is everything.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n In the spirit of trying to sort of increase my chances of success, I was like \u201cI wonder what positive impact it\u2019ll have on me if I stopped drinking.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I started with a month because a month is definitely achievable and then I was like, \u201cWell, maybe I can do three months because that\u2019s achievable.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then I did a year, which was a massive undertaking, but actually over the course of a year, you then realise that you break down all of the norms around drinking, and all of the social occasions. It\u2019s kind of like a social crutch.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You go through all of those over the course of the year, and you figure out that it\u2019s actually not that hard.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And you\u2019re bang on trend, aren\u2019t you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n The stats are showing that a lot of people are making the same choice.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I read somewhere that there will be a 31% growth in low and alcohol-free beverages in the next three years. So, this is quite a big movement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The category has grown, over the last five years, by threefold and alcohol-free beer is still the fastest growth category in beer, and there are a number of stats around people moderating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Every single age demographic is moderating their alcohol consumption.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A third of young people consider themselves non-drinkers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n For me, the most interesting bit is the moderation piece in the middle ground. It\u2019s the equivalent of the Flexitarian Diet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s not that every single person has gone vegan, but lots of people now have plant-based foods as part of their diet. Whether that\u2019s just during the week or at home, whatever it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think alcohol-free is the same. It\u2019s now part of a healthy lifestyle, and you don\u2019t have to go all in and become sober or teetotal, because that\u2019s a bit of a terrifying undertaking for most people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But this was the mission, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you started Lucky Saint because you wanted to normalise the idea of sobriety in life, in the UK where every question the answer is always, \u201cLet\u2019s have a drink.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you are sort of bang on mission, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think we\u2019re a little bit careful, I\u2019m not here to tell anyone to be sober. As a brand, we believe in moderation. Not in abstinence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We\u2019re obviously not against abstinence, but we\u2019re not here to tell people not to drink. It\u2019s more about balance.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But the bit that I really wanted to challenge was just the expectation and the status quo that every social occasion should be linked with alcohol.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And that doesn\u2019t need to be the case.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We\u2019ve all done it. We\u2019ve all walked into a pub and felt the need to apologise, whether it\u2019s to the barman or the people that you are with, that you\u2019re not drinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I believe there should be products out there that you are proud to say that you are drinking, and you should never have to apologise for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s the status quo that we want to challenge, and we want to change.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tell me how you set about on this journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You mentioned you were working, what was the full-time job? And then how on earth did you start on this journey to try and create a tasty non-alcoholic beer?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Funnily enough, I grew up in the world of advertising.<\/p>\n\n\n\n My dad, mum and sister all worked in advertising. So, to be honest, I grew up thinking that\u2019s obviously what I was going to do, because it was literally all I knew.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When I left university, I thought maybe it would be worth broadening my horizons a little bit, and just seeing if there\u2019s anything else out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I got some work experience for a fund management company. Then, at the end of it, they offered me a job and I\u2019d had quite a good time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n On paper, it was a great job for a good company and all of that stuff. So I kind of fell into it, but I was never that passionate about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What I did learn was I loved companies.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I used to find it fascinating meeting companies and when the management of companies would come in, and they\u2019d present, and they\u2019d talk about their strategy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I always just thought it looked way more interesting being on that side of the table and being in a business, rather than trying to figure out whether a business has got a good or a bad strategy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I then went and worked for a Belgian entrepreneur, and he had a few different businesses. So I started getting involved in his businesses and helping them out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n He had a university in the US that I went over and did a big project on. And then he also had, a sort of the elephant in the room, an oil and gas business. And it was always the agreement that I was not coming in to work for that business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then after about two years he said, \u201cLuke, I\u2019ve got this one project in Kazakhstan. Could you just do this one project for me?\u201d I was like, \u201cOK, fine. I\u2019ll do one project from Kazakhstan.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Anyway, slowly but surely, I got sucked into his oil and gas business and two years later I was still doing all this stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I think during that time, I had this kind of epiphany moment, which was meeting two founders of a tech business. I remember it really clearly, I was sat in an office in Victoria, and they had a concept stage, and their model was going to disrupt the whole of the retail world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I sat and I listened to them, and they were literally so passionate, driven, and excited about what they were doing. So much so, that the whole world and idea of startups just literally sort of unfolded in this meeting to me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I was like, \u201cWell, this is the world I need to live in. I need to be that excited about what I\u2019m doing. I need to have that much belief in it. I need to be that passionate about it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was really when I then started trying to think about what I\u2019d do next, and would I go and work in a startup or would I do my own thing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I spent a few years burying myself in the startup world, and just learning as much as I could, and meeting as many people as I could.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There were a few ideas that came and went. The one that I could just never shake off, because it sort of emotionally got me, was this idea of reinventing the alcohol-free beer category.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The reason I think it got me was just that proposition of alcohol-free beer is so good. On paper, it\u2019s the best proposition in the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So the right occasion, the right time, it\u2019s exactly what you need.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But the reality was, I wasn\u2019t even close to being a consumer of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n At that point the market leader in 2016 was Becks Blue, and they had a 55% profit share. So everywhere basically served that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And for me, there wasn\u2019t a liquid, a beer in a bottle, that tasted good enough to bring me into the category, and there wasn\u2019t a brand that empowered me to do so.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was the kind of inception point as I asked myself, \u201cWell, is it possible to brew a beer that\u2019s good enough to bring people into category. And is it possible to build a brand that will empower people and make people feel positive about drinking alcohol free?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Am I right in thinking though, that when you actually started approaching breweries, the answer was, \u201cNo. No, don\u2019t bother. This is a Herculean task. Do something else.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, totally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So from that point, I then just started reaching out to as many breweries and getting as many conversations as I could. One of the early conversations I got was with the ex-CEO, at that time, of a really successful craft brewery in this country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I said I was really well prepped, I remember it so clearly. I was sat in a fire escape in the office, because I obviously couldn\u2019t have this call in the middle of the office. I was really well prepped for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u201cThis is a big deal in the industry,\u201d I told him, and I explained what I wanted to do. And he just couldn\u2019t have been more dismissive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n His recommendations were, \u201cGood luck with it. Make sure you don\u2019t put any personal guarantees on any of the money that you borrow.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then he was like, \u201cWe\u2019ve looked at it as a brewery, my brewery is basically the best brewer in this country, and he says you can\u2019t do it. I think you\u2019d be better off making fizzy drinks.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n He referenced a really nice soda brand. He was like, \u201cLook, this is an awesome business, you should go and do something like that.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you just sort of dust yourself down and say, \u201cWell, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n How long did it take to crack it? And how did you get there?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Take me through the various steps.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The short version is, I spent two years working with six different brewers, in three different countries.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I spent a period of about a year in the UK and I worked with four brewers over here, trying to brew to a low alcohol.<\/p>\n\n\n\n To make alcohol-free beer, you can either brew to a low alcohol, so you brew something that doesn\u2019t produce very much alcohol. Or you can brew to a full strength and then you can remove the alcohol.<\/p>\n\n\n\n For the latter, the equipment is very expensive and it\u2019s not widely available. The technology that we\u2019ve ended up using isn\u2019t available at all in this country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So we were trying to brew to a low alcohol, and the course of events that I\u2019d go through every time is, I\u2019d go and build a relationship with the owner, or the CEO of a brewery. I\u2019d then go and pitch my idea and I\u2019d get him or her really excited about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And then they\u2019d say, \u201cOK, that\u2019s great. We need to get the head brewer involved here, because at the end of the day, they are going to be the ones who are going to make this happen.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n And the response from the head brewer would be a bit like, \u201cGod, it\u2019s not really what I\u2019m here for. I\u2019ve no personal interest in this. This is a side project.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n What would happen, we\u2019d do one or two brews, and then I\u2019d get the call from the owner of the brewer saying, \u201cYeah, look, the results aren\u2019t great, and to be honest, my head brewers not into this and I need him or her to be happy, because we got loads on, and they\u2019re a pretty important person to us. So, sorry Luke, but not one for us.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I went through this constant cycle.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019d do that again and again, and it happened four times in the UK. But each time, I did figure out that the process that we were trying to use, wasn\u2019t going to get us to the product that I wanted to create, which was always this classic lager.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The aim was always about brewing the best, highest quality, alcohol-free lager. By using that process of trial and error, I figured out that it wasn\u2019t going to be possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I then went to Belgium and trialled one of the alcohol removal processes over there. I didn\u2019t get great results and I think there were a bunch of factors contributing to that, not just the technology that we were using.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I was aware that there was this final piece of technology that I hadn\u2019t trialled yet, called vacuum distillation, which is the process of removing alcohol from full-strength beer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I decided to hunt one down and I knew that this technology was more readily available in Europe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I tracked down a particular brewery that I knew brewed amazing lager. That was part one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then part two, I found out that they did have this equipment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I approached the CEO. I was sat in the office, and I\u2019d sent hundreds of these prospective emails to people, and most of them would just go completely unanswered.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I emailed the CEO of this brewery and I just lied actually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I said, \u201cLook, I\u2019m in Germany on Friday and I\u2019ve got to come and see you to tell you about this idea.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Amazingly he responded, but he responded literally in two minutes flat, and said, \u201cSure, come by at 1.00.\u201d And so, it was like, oh right, got to get a day off work and book my flights and get myself ready.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Anyway, I went out there and I explained what I wanted to achieve and the concept.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And he was like, \u201cYeah. OK. OK,\u201d it wasn\u2019t lighting his fire necessarily.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I wasn\u2019t getting all of the positive vibes back. But then the bit that just completely unlocked it for him was two things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The first was in the UK, alcohol-free beer was only half a percent of beer sales at that point. So it was this tiny, tiny, tiny category, at the bottom of the beer category.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But in Germany, it was 6% of their sales.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And in Spain, it was 15% of beer sales.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So there was this huge question about why penetration so low in the UK?<\/p>\n\n\n\n The second bit was Beck\u2019s Blue had a 55% market share, and Bavaria at that point had a 30% market share. Between the two of them, they pretty much had the whole market.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Once we realised how small the category was in the UK, and who owned the majority of the market shares, the CEO turned around and said, \u201cWell, it\u2019s obvious why the category is so under penetrated. It\u2019s because the product isn\u2019t good enough.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So at that moment, he slammed his very, very large fist on to the table and was like, \u201cLet\u2019s go over and meet the brew master.\u201d So literally there and then, we started discussing what we wanted to achieve in terms of product development.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I like to think this was all like really fast, and we were right there and then, rolling our sleeves up. When in reality, it was coming into their peak season.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So getting an agreement is one thing, but actually starting to work and figuring out when you get test batches. It takes six weeks to brew our beer, so actually it\u2019s quite slow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then they\u2019d ship it over to the UK on pallets. It\u2019d come over in these plastic kegs called key kegs. They\u2019d arrive at a house in London on a pallet. It was just the least convenient thing ever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019d put them in the garden, and I\u2019d have a party pump, so you\u2019d attach the keg and then you\u2019d pressurise it with a hand pump and then all this foam would just come out, and you\u2019d be trying to work it all out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It would be completely the wrong temperature because it\u2019s 15 degrees outside.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So the beer is being served, and there\u2019s foam everywhere and you\u2019re trying to figure out, \u201cIs that good or bad? Is that right?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n We went round and round a few times, but the big unlock and the big \u2018Eureka!\u2019 moment, I guess, came when we moved away from producing filtered lager.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was fine, it was good quality. But it just wasn\u2019t, for me, it wasn\u2019t lighting my fire. It wasn\u2019t something, I was like, \u201cDamn, this is so much better than anything else I\u2019ve ever tasted.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n I was trying all the wheat beers in Germany and the alcohol-free wheat beers. It\u2019s a style that lends itself really well to alcohol free, because there\u2019s quite a lot going on flavour profile wise, but they also have this amazing body to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You hold the glass up to the light and it\u2019s this really cloudy liquid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And the sort of penny dropped.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was like, hang on a minute. With all that body, it just looks like a really full-flavoured beer just by looking in the glass.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was when it was like, OK, well, hang on a minute. What if we left our larger unfiltered, and we retained more of that flavour and more of that body?<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was the change that we made.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I remember, I got another batch of kegs that arrived on a pallet in London and I tried it. It was like, oh yeah, I think that\u2019s better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Like I say, it\u2019s quite difficult to tell when it\u2019s just very imperfect tasting-like conditions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Anyway, I flew over to Germany, and we poured a fresh keg right in the brewery, perfectly served at two degrees and in a chilled glass.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Suddenly, it was like, we\u2019re there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Eureka.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was so good. It was just complete, we were done.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s amazing to me that all those breweries, those six breweries in these different countries, and that you managed to keep on plugging away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I have to ask though, you said that you approached this German brewer because you knew they had this particular technology. How on earth did you know that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Just research. If you go far enough down, if you go to page 19 on Google, you find this stuff out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I thought maybe you might have called the manufacturer of the technology and bribed them to tell you who their customers were or something like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n No. That would\u2019ve been a clever idea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What was the kind of springboard moment to quit the job?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Because you said earlier on in this chat that there was a moment that came where it was like, I have to take this seriously.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Was it when you\u2019d kind of cracked it with the unfiltered, the flavour was right, and then you thought, I\u2019ve got to throw my all at this now?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I firmly believe a side hustle can\u2019t be a side hustle forever. That was the point for me, I didn\u2019t feel like I could ask people for money and not be doing it 110% of my time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then your original business plan was that you were going to sell through trade, so bars, etcetera.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So how did you land that first customer?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Oh, fun story. In the summer of 2018, I knew I was going to have to hire a salesperson.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I met a recruiter, an amazing woman called Emma Forster, and she was very patiently teasing it out of me. She was like, \u201cOK, so let\u2019s start from the beginning. What are the types of customers you\u2019d like to work with?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Initially the first words that fell out of my mouth were, if there was a burger chain, it would have to be the brand Honest Burgers, because of what they stand for in terms of quality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Emma said, \u201cWell, you\u2019re not going to believe it, but Tom, the founder of Honest Burgers, he was best man at my wedding. And I\u2019m having dinner with him tonight. Would you like an intro?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n I met him the following week, and we sat down at 10am, outside the original Honest Burgers in Brixton Market, which is like just the coolest little site.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tom was all over the alcohol-free beer base, as he has had periods of not drinking.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So it was going very well, but he didn\u2019t have anything like that on his menu.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This was literally a half an hour meeting, there and then, he was like, \u201cI love it. I\u2019ll put it in all 28 of my restaurants. The next menu change is the 1st of October.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n This meeting was in August.<\/p>\n\n\n\n \u201cMake sure you\u2019re ready.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n That became our launch date. Honest Burgers were our first customer. It\u2019s a bit of a coup.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I know your brand is Lucky Saint, but I mean, talk about lucky.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s just crazy that the opportunity just literally fell into your lap. That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I mean, look, we\u2019ve had a few of those. We\u2019ve carried on like that for 18 months.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes. When suddenly the world changed, and your beautiful business got a bit of a shock.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tell us what happened.<\/p>\n\n\n\n In January 2020, we launched Lucky Saint on Draught, which was this draft idea at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I thought if there\u2019s a time to test it, then you\u2019ve got to test it in January. We launched it in 50 venues in London, which is no mean feat in the on-trade world for a fledgling brand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n They were really, really great venues, things like, The Wigmore on Regent Street, and some really good small pub groups in London. And it just flew. What we thought was three months\u2019 stock, sold in just three weeks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I remember at the beginning of March, I put two plans to the board. It was fast or faster.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Everyone was just, \u201cYeah, let\u2019s go faster.\u201d Then a week later, my chairman called me, and he was like, \u201cLuke, I think it would probably just be worth running a couple of scenarios. I think we just need to find out what\u2019s going to happen, if we have no revenue, and no cash receipts for 12 weeks, as Covid blows over.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n That was a nice thought.<\/p>\n\n\n\n On those assumptions, we had three weeks of cash. Then obviously everyone knows what happened with Covid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The on-trade shut.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The thing that was tricky was, that the on-trade ultimately got shut down, but people had stopped ordering long before it got shut down, in week three of March 2020.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We were in a position where we still hadn\u2019t been paid for our January sales, because of the way that the payment terms work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You\u2019d probably expect to be paid for January at the end of February, but actually everyone was already tightening up and starting to hold on to cash at that point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You\u2019re the new kid on the block, so probably you don\u2019t have the might of a big brewery behind you or whatever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you\u2019re the last person that\u2019s going to get paid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Well then, the internet came to the rescue.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Amazon was the first thing to pick up. Do you remember the stockpiling thing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Like everyone was buying loo roll, but people were stockpiling and suddenly Amazon just took off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Over a two-day period, suddenly we were doing big sales numbers on Amazon. I was like, OK, well, it\u2019s just people bulk buying and stocking up. So this will probably drop off in the next week or whatever, but it never did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then a week later, the same happened on our website, and it just took off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n By the beginning of April, we were making more weekly revenue, than we were pre-Covid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n April was a record month. We\u2019d had this extraordinary January, where we\u2019d launched draught and it had been a huge month for us at that point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We were up on January, in April 2020, all through direct to consumer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s amazing though. The majority of your growth actually happened when you completely pivoted to a new model, direct to consumer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s like sending boxes of bottles to people\u2019s homes, or is that through some of the online supermarkets as well?<\/p>\n\n\n\n What ended up being a really positive channel?<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was all through our own channels. We had obviously the third-party websites, they\u2019re great, and we did good volume through them, but really all of the pickup came through our own channel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Our own Amazon store and our own website.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And what are your hopes and fears for 2022 and beyond?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tell me a bit about how the brand is going to evolve from here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n One of our mantras is, \u201cDo the right thing well.\u201d Which comes out of the mantra, \u201cDo one thing well.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n We\u2019ve set out with a mission to create the world\u2019s defining alcohol-free lager. Anything that distracts from that is something that we won\u2019t do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Inherently, innovation from a liquid perspective, isn\u2019t something that sits at the core of our strategy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I also never say never.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The other really exciting initiative that we launched at the end of last year, was an initiative in mental health.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We have partnered with Mental Health First Aid England. We undertook it as a business, so we decided we wanted to train a third of our business in Mental Health First Aid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s like physical first aid, but it gives you the tools to be able to spot someone who may be struggling with their mental health, knowing how to approach and assess them, and then being able to point them towards the right support.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nine of us did it initially, with a guy called Harry Corin.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was honestly such a powerful two days.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We then thought, we wanted to train the rest of our business, because it was that sort of profound in terms of the impact that it had.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We started talking to Harry about what we could do more broadly for the industry as well. Harry has now joined our business, and we are partnered with Mental Health First Aid England.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So we offer Mental Health First Aid training to people within the industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The idea is that we\u2019re supporting their mission to get 1 in 10 people trained within the workforce. So we go in, and as an example, this month we\u2019re launching it with Honest Burgers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We\u2019re training 16 people in their business next week. Then there will be 16 people across that business, who will actually be touching hundreds of people within their business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The ripple effect is actually really extensive. We\u2019ll be touching thousands of people next year.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What made you choose Mental Health First Aid specifically?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Have you, either with your own mental health or people around you that you\u2019re close to, seen that people have been suffering and you\u2019ve wanted to be able to help and not been able to?<\/p>\n\n\n\n We launched the initiative almost two years the day after a friend of mine took his own life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was having done the Mental Health First Aid training, frankly, it opens your eyes to the things that you miss, the things that you ignore.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think the decision to go with Mental Health First Aid, as an initiative, was due to a couple of things that came out of the training we did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n One was the fact, that there are a number of positive steps that you can take, that positively impact your mental health. It\u2019s not all about crisis management.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The second aspect is, there\u2019s lots of people who like talking about mental health, but first aid training is this very tangible way of helping.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Actions speak louder than words. It\u2019s a really tangible skill set, that you could put out there, that does make a difference.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You\u2019re working on some really cool stuff, but I asked about hopes and fears.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I want to know what you\u2019re worried about and what you think might adversely impact the business over the next year?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Life\u2019s too short to freak out about that stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m optimistic that this is the final phase of Covid. We get through that, we get into the summer, the category is in a really healthy place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We\u2019ve got fantastic team, we\u2019ve done loads of work building the team over the last 12 months.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Tell me about that because you mentioned bringing a managing director on. This is still a very young business, that\u2019s quite an unusual decision.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So why get an MD so soon?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I met, our now chairman, three months after we launched, and he\u2019s an amazing guy called Chillen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But one of the things that we started talking about very, very early on, was he is a huge advocate of hiring disproportionately senior roles, at a disproportionately early stage in your business, because it gets the foundations for you then to grow much faster.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We started that search, and that was a conversation we started in February 2019, and Emma started in February 2020.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We put a huge amount of work into making sure we found the right person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It has been transformational for us, particularly around being a team and culture.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Because you\u2019re now 30 people now, right? How has that changed the business, having head count rise relatively quickly in quite a short space of time?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think you break it down into phases.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There was a point where we were team of 10, I think almost everyone, theoretically, reported into me. Then Emma joined, and we started building a management team. I think it\u2019s a fascinating journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The thing that I continue to be surprised by, is the rate at which my role changes. I get about a six-month run at trying to do a part of the role, and then it\u2019ll all change, and it\u2019ll be like, \u201cRight, we\u2019re done with that, you need to go focus on something else.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you go from managing people, to not managing anyone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You go from being very internally focused, to suddenly being externally focused, on execution one moment, and then it\u2019ll all be about building foundations for future growth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s a continual change of focus, like an evolution of focus.<\/p>\n\n\n\n That sounds awful to me. The idea gives me whiplash, but you thrive off that, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n There are bits of it that I get more energy from than others, for sure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think I love doing new stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n There\u2019s always the next phase to go after, and the faster you grow, the quicker the phases come.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Just finally, Luke, have you had any interesting responses to Lucky Saint as a product?<\/p>\n\n\n\n What were people\u2019s first impressions?<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019ll give you the two sides of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I remember in year one, I stood in a lot of Sainsbury\u2019s stores, doing sample tasting. So I was stood at the front of store, my branded jumper on, desperately trying to convince people to try alcohol-free beer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The number of people who were like, \u201cNot interested. What\u2019s the point?\u201d All of that stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s definitely easier now than it was then.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You said you came up with some pretty clever lines, some pretty good ways to get people to try it. Give me a glimpse of what some of those lines might have been.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I know, for example, that Lucky Saint is really low in calories.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So at any point were you like, \u201cTry this beer, it won\u2019t make you put on weight.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n It got to the point where I\u2019d actually try and get them to basically buy a teacake, because it was easier to get their attention with a teacake.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then when I had them engaged, I\u2019d then be like, \u201cOh, and you should also try this beer.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n They\u2019d be like, \u201cOh, no, I can\u2019t, I\u2019m driving.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then you say, \u201cOh, no, it\u2019s fine because it\u2019s alcohol free.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Then they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, well, I don\u2019t like beer.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I\u2019d say, \u201cBut you just said you did like beer.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Anyway, you get these very funny exchanges and you just learn to go with the flow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to Sound Advice on Apple iTunes<\/a> here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We are also on Spotify <\/a>and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Join our community to share your insights and stories on Twitter @SageIreland<\/a> using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast<\/strong>, on Instagram @SageOfficial <\/a>or in the comments below!<\/p>\n\n\n\n Luke is @LuckySaint_Luke<\/a> on Instagram.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Lucky Saint is available on their website<\/a>, in most supermarkets and on Amazon<\/a> if you want to check it out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Get your free guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template to help you boss your side hustle and achieve your goals.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Join 1.5 million subscribers and get the best business admin strategies and tactics, as well as actionable advice to help your company thrive, in your inbox every month.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t Don’t let Dry January get you down, use it to get inspired. Here’s how the lucky Luke Boase used this challenge to create his business.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1161,"featured_media":8597,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"audio","meta":{"_sage_video":false,"post_featured_image_hide":false,"sage_hide_published_date":false,"sage_hide_read_time":false,"sage_hide_share_buttons":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[162],"tags":[132,332,153],"business_type":[5],"lilypad":[],"context":[],"industry":[199],"persona":[232],"imagine_tag":[230,234],"coauthors":[439],"class_list":["post-7905","post","type-post","status-publish","format-audio","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growth-customers","tag-start-business","tag-sound-advice-podcast","tag-startup-stories","post_format-post-format-audio","business_type-small-business","industry-food-beverage"],"sage_meta":{"region":"en-ie","author_name":"Bex Burn-Callander","featured_image":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2022\/04\/Blog_Header_Image_30.jpg","imagine_tags":{"230":"Small business","234":"Start-up business"}},"distributor_meta":false,"distributor_terms":false,"distributor_media":false,"distributor_original_site_name":"Sage Advice Ireland","distributor_original_site_url":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog","push-errors":false,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7905","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/users\/1161"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=7905"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7905\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/media\/8597"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=7905"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"business_type","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/business_type?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"lilypad","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/lilypad?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"context","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/context?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"industry","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/industry?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"persona","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/persona?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"imagine_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/imagine_tag?post=7905"},{"taxonomy":"author","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/api\/wp\/v2\/coauthors?post=7905"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}From Dry January to a fresh business proposal<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Pay attention to growing trends<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Use your business to challenge the change you want to see<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Broaden your horizons to find your passion<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
There will be plenty of rejection before the breakthrough<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Prepare for the long haul\u2014you can\u2019t build a business overnight<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Last-ditch efforts lead to last-minute flights<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Increase market penetration by offering a better product<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Research\u2014all the information you need is at your disposal<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
The moment you realise it can\u2019t just be a side hustle any more<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
A business named after luck and built on it too<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
A lockdown and an on-trade shutdown<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Pivoting your business model could lead to an unexpected growth in sales<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Making mental health a priority in the workplace<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Don\u2019t feel like you have to wait to bring on a managing director<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
A growing team comes with a constant change of focus<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
First impressions and funny exchanges<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Luke Boase:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Inspired by this small business story?<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Want to know more about Luke Boase and Lucky Saint?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Side hustle toolkit<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
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\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n\n\nSubscribe to the Sage Advice newsletter<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
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