Where to start in order to get the ball rolling<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n House extension or sustainable business opportunity?<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Branding is one of the biggest challenges you will face<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Not every business relies heavily on social media marketing<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Google Ads vs Facebook Ads\u2014 figuring out which works best for you<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n What is speciality coffee and what makes it different?<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Market research can help you figure out your perfect price point<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n How a subscription model can improve your business\u2019s cash flow<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Pesky post and fuel shortages\u2014 there will be things outside of your control<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Software is an investment worth making<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Expanding your business in the world of e-commerce<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Adapting your business to fulfil wholesale needs<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Winning awards and dealing with negative reviews<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n The differences between being an employee to being an employer<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I want to know, first of all, how long does it take to become an airline pilot?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It takes about two years, generally speaking, to go from zero experience to a qualified airline pilot.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So that must have been a bit of a wrench, when you spent two years becoming a pilot, becoming experienced and being able to use these controls, to then being like, \u201cRight, I\u2019m not going to do that any more. I\u2019m going to do something completely different.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Yeah, it was a huge decision for me to have to make.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I mean, you don\u2019t really understand until you lose a job, how big a part of your life your job is.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s tough, it was really tough, that\u2019s the only way to put it really.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But what can you do in these scenarios?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s not just my individual organisation that\u2019s affected, it\u2019s the entire industry. You sort of figure, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve got to do something because I don\u2019t know when that opportunity will arise again, if ever.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Did you always want to run your own thing, start a business?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Was it lurking in the back of your mind that that was something you\u2019d like to do, or was it just purely the job was no longer what you hoped, and you just had to do something different?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n No, 100%. I had thought of doing something involved with coffee four or five years ago, so the seed was planted then.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I had a few ideas. But it\u2019s like most things, when you\u2019re working full time, it\u2019s hard to really focus on other projects.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Really, it was just, I suppose, fortuitous in some regards, that the situation allowed me to start from fresh really. Had the situation not have been what it was, I probably wouldn\u2019t have actually gone down the route that I had done.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So what exactly happened? You were furloughed, or were you made redundant and that was a hard stop?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Or did you have some wiggle room where you could be on furlough and plan for a little while first?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n How did it pan out for you?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Long story short, I spent 12 years working for Thomas Cook, the travel company. They had their own airline, who I was a pilot for. When Thomas Cook went under in September 2019, that was me redundant.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I spent three months looking for work, I managed to get another job and that was a full-time role, and I started that in January 2020.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I\u2019d only been out of work for three months, at that point it was fantastic, I thought, off we go again.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Then in March, the pandemic obviously hit and the entire industry, all of a sudden, had to just shut up shop. So I thought, well, there\u2019s just no conceivable way I\u2019m going to find another job now.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And so what were the first steps that you took? What came first?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Was it a website or did you start looking for a coffee supply?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Break it down for me.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I think I basically sat down, and I thought, \u201cRight, what is it that I want to do?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I\u2019d established that opening a coffee shop was probably not the best idea in a pandemic when everybody\u2019s stuck at home.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I thought, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve always been interested in the production side as well. So why not go down that road?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Purely coincidentally, my father owned some commercial properties, and one of his tenants who ran a catering company, was struggling, and he approached my dad and said, \u201cLook, I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m going to survive, I\u2019m looking to downsize.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So there were pieces of the puzzle coming into place.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I was thinking, \u201cOh well, look, if he moves out, that could potentially be a perfect spot for me to set up a coffee production roastery.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I thought, \u201cWell, there\u2019s that part of the puzzle that could fall into place.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Then, it was just a case of looking, \u201cWell, how do I get into this? Where do I buy coffee beans from? Where do I buy machinery from? How do I set up a brand?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I got in touch with a good friend of mine that I went to school with, he\u2019s a fantastic graphic designer.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I hadn\u2019t spoken to him for a number of years, but I called him and I said, \u201cLook, I\u2019ve got this idea. Do you want to come on board and help me realise the brand?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n He was like, \u201cYeah, absolutely.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n He went away, came up with some design ideas for logos, branding, and then we eventually came to what the brand is now. Then it was just going through the motions with everything else.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I found a company to build the production machine for me, I found companies to make all the packaging, and I found some to develop a website.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It was just getting everything in place, over probably a six to eight-month period, to get to a point where I could launch the brand.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You just have to find your way through and find all the aspects that you need to bring it all together harmoniously.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But how did you even know what machinery you were going to need?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Are there books out there, like How To Start A Coffee Roasting Business 101, or is Google your best friend when it comes to this stuff?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Oh, absolutely.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I mean, I had some previous knowledge because as I alluded to, it was an industry that I was interested in, in general, but basically, it\u2019s just doing a lot of research. I love that sort of thing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So it literally is just the case of you have to go away and find stuff.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Given that you needed to buy machinery, I can imagine it was quite costly actually starting this business. This isn\u2019t something that you can just be like, \u201cRight, we\u2019ll just shoestring budget.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You must have had to make quite a sizeable investment really early on, before you were making any money.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Can you share anything about how much it cost to get going?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Part of the reason that I knew, or had the opportunity to start the business, was because I had some money set aside, originally for an extension on our house.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But with obviously the two job losses, I put that on hold.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I had this pot of money sitting around and I thought, \u201cWell, what can I do with this? We can extend the house and it\u2019ll be bigger, and it\u2019ll be lovely.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \u201cBut how about I invest it into something that could potentially sustain us as a family in the future?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I had about \u00a370,000 set aside, so I invested, the majority of that initially. I would say probably \u00a350,000 or \u00a360,000 of that probably went in over the first year, March 2020 until March 2021.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That was one of the biggest things that I hadn\u2019t appreciated, was just how much money you need for capital. You go through thinking, \u201cOh, I need this and that\u2019s going to cost that much, and I\u2019m going to need that, it\u2019ll be fine.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s only when you get into things, you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, I need that as well. Oh, I\u2019m really going to need that too.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Before you know it, the cost ramps up.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n When people say, \u201cCome up with a figure and then double it,\u201d that probably is true, because cost is a never-ending thing, for sure.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Talk me through some of the challenges that you faced in these early days, because presumably, you must have come across some barriers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Some things that must have gone wrong, some things that you just didn\u2019t realise were going to be as tricky as they were.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Tell us about those.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I built this factory, that you can see, pretty much from scratch, with the help of my dad, who\u2019s a builder as well.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So we figured we\u2019d go down that route to keep the cost down, but things like a new ceiling were required because of the way we were running some electricity cables.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n To get the coffee roaster into the factory, we had to replace the whole front of the building with a brand-new roller shutter, because we couldn\u2019t get the old one up, to get the coffee roaster in.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s just stuff like that, things you don\u2019t really anticipate occurring.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n There were a few issues like that.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Obviously, starting the company itself as a brand, that\u2019s probably been my biggest revelation so far, learning how big of a proportion branding is when running a business, especially in e-commerce.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I sort of half-naively thought, \u201cWell, it all looks really fancy and it\u2019ll be great. I\u2019ll set up a website and make it go live, and hey presto, there we go. I\u2019ll be a millionaire by the end of the month,\u201d type thing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You soon come to realise that business is ferocious and, and there\u2019s a lot of competition.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n When you are an unknown brand, it doesn\u2019t matter how much you believe in your product and your brand. It\u2019s only when you get the customers and you get the customer feedback, that you know you\u2019ve actually got something.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Previously, it was completely unknown to me. It\u2019s not something I\u2019d ever had to do or wanted to do. So that\u2019s been probably the biggest factor affecting business as of now, as it\u2019s up and running.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s funny you say about brand and marketing because I actually was looking around on Instagram, and I looked up Altitude Coffee trying to find you.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And there were 22 Altitude Coffees on there, and I just thought that must be a bit of a headache as well.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I mean, obviously it didn\u2019t take too much to find the right one, and there was info about you on there, but I thought as a customer, that must be tricky.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So how do you stand out when there are 22 other Altitude Coffees on the main social media platform that you are advertising on?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n With Instagram, about six months ago, I took on a small team of guys, and they run the account remotely for me.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So they\u2019ve been a big help, and we\u2019ve been doing a lot of live videos, which you may have come across if you went on the feed.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You\u2019d see me talking about stuff to do with coffee, and just trying to do things that are engaging. So the customers or potential customers can see who I am and what we do, etcetera.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But obviously, that\u2019s only one part of the marketing strategy, really.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We\u2019re more heavily reliant on Google Ads and email marketing, than we are necessarily on Instagram.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It just seems to be the way that it is.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s a general trend moving away from buying stuff off of social media platforms, compared to things like Google Shopping.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It is a component of what we do, but probably not the biggest one.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I try not to spend too much time on it, because it does become a black hole getting involved, constantly trying to find a new post or new content for social media.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s good to have people that do that remotely because that\u2019s one thing that you can offload, and you can then focus on other tasks.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That was a really interesting point that you are more focused on Google and Google AdWords, than say on social media marketing because I was going to ask about your secrets for attracting new customers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t want you to tell me your entire online strategy because I know in every business, especially in a competitive industry, that is your secret sauce.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But can you just give me like one or two examples of things that have really worked well?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I mean, there\u2019s not really much of a secret to what I\u2019m doing at the moment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But effectively, when I started, I was doing some Facebook advertising and Google advertising, and I just found that advertising on Facebook was a lot more difficult.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Obviously, with Facebook, you create the copy for an advert, whether it be a photo or a video, and you choose an audience that you want Facebook to pitch that advert too.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n A lot of it is a shot in the dark really, because you write out this lovely advert, it\u2019s humorous, it\u2019s good content, it\u2019s got a good video and you think, \u201cOh yeah, that\u2019s going to go down really well.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But really, all it\u2019s doing is chucking the bait out and hoping that you get somebody to go, \u201cOh, what\u2019s that?\u201d And click on it, and get a sale from it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And I found that a lot more difficult.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n With Google Ads, the individual has already shown intent because they have effectively searched for the product that is displayed.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So as far as it seems to me, you\u2019re already halfway there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If somebody has searched for speciality coffee beans, or a speciality coffee roaster, and your product appears, it\u2019s appeared because Google has obviously deemed your product, as being relevant to the search of the individual.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Exclusively at the moment, I use Google Shopping.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s something that you\u2019re aware of, but effectively, if you search for something on Google, the pictures that pop up at the top, showing you the products, that\u2019s Google Shopping.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Effectively all of your products are uploaded to Google\u2019s server with the title, the pricing, basic parameters, if it\u2019s clothing etcetera.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And then when someone searches for something, Google goes, \u201cOk, right. I think this product is what they\u2019d like to see.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So that\u2019s where I spend most of my money, is Google Shopping.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Some of it can be fairly hands off. Once you get your head around Google feeds and spreadsheets and stuff like that. It seems to work better for at least my industry anyway.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It might be useful to tell our listeners what\u2019s different about the coffee that you sell, because obviously this is a crowded market, but you do specialise in particular kinds of coffee, and obviously your promise is that it\u2019s super fresh.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Tell us everything about what makes your brand unique.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We purely specialise in what\u2019s known as speciality coffee.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So generally speaking, speciality coffee is still relatively unknown. What makes speciality coffee special is, the beans are grown by farmers that are paid way above the average rate that commodity coffee is paid.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That then enables them to produce better crops, gives them a better quality of life and, therefore, creates a better experience in general, for everybody, from the farmer to the end drinker.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Our beans come into us from a supplier that I use in the UK.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We store them in the traditional hessian sacks, that you may have seen on TV or on the internet. Then we roast the coffee fresh in our machines, so that the customer always receives freshly roasted coffee.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You will generally find that supermarket coffee is effectively stale.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It will be coffee that would\u2019ve been roasted at least months prior to it being put on the shelf.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If I put four cups of coffee in front of you, would you be able to have a sniff and a sip and be like, \u201cThis is the most freshly roasted\u201d?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It is so day and night, that you would be able to tell, straight away.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If I gave you two bowls of ground coffee, one that had been roasted a couple of days ago, and one that was off a supermarket shelf three months ago, instantaneously, you would go, \u201cRight, that\u2019s the fresh one and that\u2019s the old one.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s that day and night.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You said something that I would like to press you on about pricing, because obviously you are paying a much higher price for the coffee you buy in.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n These aren\u2019t commodity prices you\u2019re paying, you\u2019re actually paying over the odds.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So how on earth do you decide your pricing?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s like anything, you do a bit of market research, you see what your competitors are pricing themselves, or the level that they\u2019re pricing themselves at.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And you work out if you can match that with your overheads, etcetera.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If you can, it really is just a case of, at the start of proceedings, you set your pricing, and see how it goes.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You set a price and you go, \u201cWell, look, I believe this to be a fair price for the product.\u201d Then you wait and see if the customers agree with you, and if nobody buys it, then you know that something\u2019s clearly wrong.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Sometimes it is difficult for people to understand, and they go, \u201cWell, why am I paying \u00a310 for a bag of coffee from you, when I can go and get a bag for \u00a34.25 in the supermarket, and it\u2019s three times the size,\u201d etcetera.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I suppose it\u2019s perceived value, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s like anything in life. If you perceive something to have value and you\u2019re willing to pay for that value, then you will.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Well I\u2019m convinced.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But then I\u2019ve also seen the video of you painstakingly picking unripe coffee beans out of a huge bag of beans, after you\u2019ve roasted them, to make sure that nobody gets a single bean that is not absolutely perfect.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I feel like whatever you charge, it\u2019ll probably be fair.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I think we did a post on Facebook ages ago, and the amount of people that were saying, \u201cRubbish, there is absolutely no way he is picking through beans.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t know why people thought that would be such a strange thing to do, but we do.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Often, there are beans that are unripe, and you can\u2019t tell that they are, until they\u2019re roasted. So we just pick them out as a bit of quality control.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But that was quite controversial it seemed.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Well, that\u2019s interesting.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I wanted to pick up on what you said about having a subscription because I\u2019m interested to know how you manage cash flow in your business.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n When you said subscription, I was like, \u201cAha, that\u2019s a nice way to have consistent revenue coming in month on month. And must give you a bit of peace of mind.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So tell me about your cash flow.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Is it tricky? Are you always dancing with the devil, or have you got a model that\u2019s pretty solid, and you know where you are financially in terms of cash, most of the time?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Cash flow has been a real issue at times, especially, buying expensive beans, and packaging, all that sort of stuff.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It is difficult, especially in the early days, when you\u2019re trying to recruit customers, you\u2019re a relative minnow, so your web traffic is low compared to those of an established competitor.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I set up the subscription service as a way to entice existing customers or potential customers, to stick with us.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Anyone who runs an e-commerce store will know that the cost of recruiting a customer is expensive, especially if you are paying Google for the privilege.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I mean, at the moment, we sometimes pay between say \u00a38 and \u00a312 per customer, effectively, to recruit them.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You want them to remain a customer because once you\u2019ve recruited them, you don\u2019t have to recruit them again.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If you can swallow that one-off cost in the first purchase, you\u2019ve potentially got a high lifetime revenue that you could receive from that particular individual, by enticing them to stay with you.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So the subscription service has been pretty successful.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n How straightforward is it to send coffee through the post? I mean, it sounds like it should be easy peasy, coffee isn\u2019t something that can spoil.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If it gets a bit bashed around, it\u2019s not the end of the world.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Is it straightforward or have there been headaches getting it sorted?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s relatively straightforward. The biggest issue at the moment is Covid causing issues with the postal service.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We send everything via a 24-hour system, so it\u2019s supposed to be delivered within one to two working days.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We\u2019ve had a lot more instances recently, of people emailing me two weeks later saying it still hasn\u2019t turned up, and it\u2019s so frustrating because as a business, I want to make sure the customer is getting a good experience.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So straight away, we always send out another bag of coffee for free.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And often, they\u2019ll then send an email saying, \u201cOh, it\u2019s just come through the post this afternoon.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Then they\u2019ve got an extra bag for nothing, but we want to ensure that they\u2019re getting a good experience.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Unfortunately, it\u2019s not of their doing, these things do occur. Thankfully it\u2019s not that frequent, but it\u2019s enough that it is a bind, especially at the moment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That\u2019s frustrating. So are there any other things in terms of circumstances outside your control that affect your success as a brand?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I suppose also supply, getting the right beans in at the right time.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Are there any other things that can be challenging and that you really have no control over?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It is just a case of just being pretty fastidious in staying on top of things really.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Ensuring that you know what you\u2019re going to need, even things like gas bottles, our machine runs on LPG (liquefied petroleum gas), that you would run a caravan with.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So we have to get LPG bottles come in, so I have to make sure, \u201cOh, is one running out? Do I need another one? How long is that going to take?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We did have an issue with that last year, actually, there was a fuel supply issue going on, and we couldn\u2019t get any gas for about a week.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So we had to effectively close up because we couldn\u2019t run the machine. Things like that can occur, but thankfully infrequently.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Oh well, that\u2019s good. At least if you can plan for most of the changeable issues, then you\u2019re ahead.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But that software you talked about, where you automated a lot of the stuff, where you\u2019re measuring how many beans you have left, how many packaging materials do you have left, is that something you bought off the shelf, or did you build that yourself?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s a company called Cropster, and they are probably the industry leaders when it comes to coffee roasting.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n They have a software that can do pretty much everything. It\u2019s quite expensive, but I see it as pretty much a necessity. You have to accept, \u201cI need that and I\u2019ve got to pay for it.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You said that when you first started Altitude, you decided to go down the e-commerce route because everything was closed, there was no point trying to open a coffee shop, when everyone was locked down.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Obviously, things are different now.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You always wanted to have a real-world coffee shop. Talk to me about that part of your plan.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n How far along are you?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Well, nowhere other than in my head at the moment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But I am desperate to open a coffee shop, absolutely desperate. It\u2019s just funds that are the major issue, because that\u2019s going to be another seriously significant outlay.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s definitely something that I want to do.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If there are any investors out there that would like to open a coffee shop, do get in touch.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But I feel we\u2019ve got everything in place that could facilitate opening one, I think we\u2019ve got the brand aspect. If we could open an Altitude Coffee shop, I think the customers would be there, we know that we\u2019ve got a good product.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n The coffee that we\u2019re selling won the Great Taste Awards last year, so I know that if I\u2019ve got industry professionals that are saying, \u201cIt\u2019s good,\u201d you think, \u201cWell, you\u2019re not starting from a completely blank canvas, opening a shop and you don\u2019t know if anyone\u2019s going to like your coffee or like your brand.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I know that aspect is there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So that sort of excites me, but it\u2019s purely just down to, at the moment, cash in the business, and obviously whether or not I would like to take the hit to realise that.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t know is the honest answer.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I would love to say, \u201cYeah, this time next year we\u2019ve got at least one shop up and running, but we\u2019ll have to see.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But what about supplying other independent coffee shops?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Is that something that you\u2019ve considered or do you feel like that would dilute your brand?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That\u2019s actually something we\u2019re doing at the minute as well.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I\u2019ve got a number of places, businesses, and shops that I\u2019m supplying to. It\u2019s sort of a no-brainer really, because it\u2019s a part of the business that can guarantee some good cash flow.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I\u2019m working with some local places at the moment, which has been great.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It\u2019s a part of the business that I\u2019d like to expand more.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Again, it\u2019s difficult with time because it\u2019s a full-time role really, going around pitching yourselves to other shops. There\u2019s a lot of coffee roasters out there, and a lot of places have got established relationships with other roasters already.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So trying to pitch in to these places is difficult. But we\u2019re getting there slowly.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We\u2019ve got a few on the books now, which is good.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That\u2019s definitely an aspect to the business that I\u2019d like to expand as well, this year.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n If loads of shops were like, \u201cYeah, we want to stock you,\u201d what is your capability in terms of scale?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Could you, with all the roasting equipment that you\u2019ve got there, how long before you outgrow what you\u2019ve got?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Pretty soon, realistically, with the machinery that I\u2019ve got at the minute.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So the trouble with the machine that I\u2019ve got, at the minute it\u2019s fantastic, but it isn\u2019t really designed for huge volumes.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So if we were to take on some more wholesale contracts, we would probably look to buy the bigger version of the machine that we\u2019ve got there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It feels like you are at a bit of a tipping point where you almost need to get some money in or make a decision about whether you stay the same size, or whether you really push and go for mega growth.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n It must be quite an exciting, but quite a nerve-racking time.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t know why I\u2019m more reserved this time, because it\u2019s no different to what I did two years ago, I suppose.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But I suppose now I\u2019m here, you sort of feel a bit more, \u201cOh well, let\u2019s walk before we can run.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n But I think it would just come down to being able to go, \u201cRight. Ok, look, I think this is going to work. Let\u2019s see what we can do, let\u2019s see if we can find the money, and make it work.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n The only stumbling block is probably me, in all honesty.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And how gung-ho you can be.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So Joe, tell me, in terms of the two years on this crazy roller-coaster journey, I want to hear about the best moment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So the absolute highlight in the Altitude journey, and I want to hear about your lowest, your darkest night of the soul moment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n The biggest highlight, I suppose, is when I won two awards at the Great Taste Awards last year, that was probably the highlight.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That was really good because I had to enter pretty much at the start of last year, and I\u2019d only really been running the business for two months at that point, in the way of physically selling to customers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Just because of the way that they do the entries, the entries are in February and the results come out in September.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I thought, \u201cWell, you\u2019ve got to be in it to win it, type thing.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So I thought, \u201cWell, I\u2019ll put some entries in. At worst, if it doesn\u2019t win anything, at least I\u2019ll get some feedback from industry professionals to see what it is they didn\u2019t like.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n When the results came out in September, I was fully expecting nothing but negative feedback.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Then to win two awards and to get some really positive comments, I was like, \u201cOh wow, this is great.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I couldn\u2019t believe it really. There\u2019s little old me winning the awards for coffee in our first year of operating.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So that was great, that was really good.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n A low point would be the odd, and I say very, very sporadically, the odd bad review that you get.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I don\u2019t often know what makes people tick, but I think in the early days, I had one pretty negative review and it hurt because I know it\u2019s only coffee beans, but it\u2019s something that you\u2019ve made and you think, \u201cOh, this is really good,\u201d and you want people to enjoy it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Then when someone writes something negative and gives you one star, and you see something like \u201cOh, dreadful,\u201d, it really cuts into my soul. I just think, \u201cOh God, that\u2019s horrendous.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n What did you do? Did you reply to that person or did you try to get to the bottom of it?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Or did you just have to sort of draw a line under it and move on?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n No, I did reply because I tend to reply to all the reviews we get, directly to the customer, either good or bad, thankfully it\u2019s mostly good.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I just wrote to this customer and said, \u201cSorry to hear that you felt that way. What was the reason?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n When they responded, they were actually like, \u201cOh, well it just wasn\u2019t really for me. I tend to like this type of bean and your one wasn\u2019t really that great.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So it probably wasn\u2019t actually reflective of a one-star review, but it was just that initial moment when it came through, and I was like, \u201cOh God, that\u2019s horrendous. I\u2019ve never had one of those before.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n You have to roll with the punches sometimes.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Do you ever miss flying?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n I do, yes. I don\u2019t miss the jet lag.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Anybody that\u2019s involved in aviation will tell you that it\u2019s something that runs in your blood, and it is, it\u2019s definitely an itch that I haven\u2019t fully scratched yet.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So watch this space.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Well, this is it. You\u2019ll make your millions and then you\u2019ll have your own private plane and you\u2019ll be able to go flying every weekend.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n That would be the dream, wouldn\u2019t it? That would be the dream.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n In terms of your two careers, if you have to put them side by side, how does it feel to do something so different?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Has it been as rewarding? What have you learned?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n What\u2019s been the contrast for you between the two sides of the coin?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Very, very different.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Obviously, being an employee of an organisation and being the boss of an organisation is very different. I spent a long time working for somebody and I got paid every month and everything was great.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Then all of a sudden now, I\u2019m making the decisions that directly impact the success or failure of the business.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So when something is yours, you\u2019re a lot more passionate about it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n As much as I was passionate about flying, it does become a job to some degree. You go in and you do your job, and you go home again, and you get paid, and that\u2019s the end of it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Whereas this, you feel directly invested.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n So you wake up every morning, and you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, wow. Yeah, what am I going to do today?\u201d Even if it\u2019s standing in the cold factory, roasting beans, you feel, \u201cWell, it\u2019s mine.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n And I love that.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to Sound Advice on Apple iTunes<\/a> here.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n We are also on Spotify<\/a> and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Join our community to share your insights and stories on Twitter @SageIreland<\/a>\u00a0using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram @SageOfficial <\/a>or in the comments below!<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n Check out Altitude Coffee on Instagram <\/a>or Twitter<\/a>!<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nRedundancy ignited my desire to start a business<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Where to start in order to get the ball rolling<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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House extension or sustainable business opportunity?<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Branding is one of the biggest challenges you will face<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Not every business relies heavily on social media marketing<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Google Ads vs Facebook Ads\u2014figuring out which works best for you<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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What is speciality coffee and what makes it different?<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Market research can help you figure out your perfect price point<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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How a subscription model can improve your business\u2019s cash flow<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Pesky post and fuel shortages\u2014 there will be things outside of your control<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Software is an investment worth making<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Expanding your business in the world of e-commerce<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Adapting your business to fulfil wholesale needs<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Winning awards and dealing with negative reviews<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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The differences between being an employee to being an employer<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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Inspired by this small business story?<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
Want to know more about Altitude Coffee?<\/h4>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n
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