{"id":8787,"date":"2022-08-15T06:00:33","date_gmt":"2022-08-15T05:00:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/?p=8787"},"modified":"2022-08-18T14:53:04","modified_gmt":"2022-08-18T13:53:04","slug":"sound-advice-how-to-fail-successfully-jonny-grubin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-how-to-fail-successfully-jonny-grubin\/","title":{"rendered":"How to fail successfully"},"content":{"rendered":"<header class=\"entry-header has-dark-background-color entry-header--audio entry-header--has-illustration entry-header--has-illustration--audio\">\n\t<div class=\"container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"entry-header__row row align-center\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-lg-7 col-xlg-6 entry-header__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"component component-single-header\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"entry-header__misc text--subtitle text--uppercase text--small\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/category\/growth-customers\/\" class=\"entry-header__link\">Growth &amp; Customers<\/a>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"entry-title-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h1 class=\"entry-title\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\tHow to fail successfully\t\t\t\t\t<\/h1>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"entry-header__description\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"single-post-details container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"col\">\n\t\t\t<span class=\"posted-on \">Published <time class=\"entry-date published\" datetime=\"2022-08-15T06:00:33+01:00\">15 August, 2022<\/time><\/span><span class=\"reading-time\"> min read<\/span>\n\t\t<button\n\t\t\ttype=\"button\"\n\t\t\tclass=\"social-share-button button button--icon button--secondary js-social-share-button\"\n\t\t\tdata-share-title=\"How to fail successfully\"\n\t\t\tdata-share-url=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-how-to-fail-successfully-jonny-grubin\/\"\n\t\t\tdata-share-text=\"Please read this interesting article\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"social-share-button__share-label\">Share<\/span>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"social-share-button__copy-label\" hidden>Copy Link<\/span>\n\t\t\t<span class=\"social-share-button__copy-tooltip\" aria-hidden=\"true\" hidden>Copied<\/span>\n\t\t<\/button>\n\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n\t<\/header>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-post-author has-dark-background-color alignfull\">\n\t<div class=\"container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"col\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"co-authors\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t<div class=\"entry-author-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"entry-author\" href=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/author\/bexburncallander\/\">\n\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" alt=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-gb\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/10\/2020\/12\/Rebecca-burn-callander-podcast.jpg\" class=\"entry-author__image\" height=\"40\" width=\"40\" fetchpriority=\"high\" \/>\t\t\t\t<span class=\"entry-author__name\">Bex Burn-Callander<\/span>\n\t\t\t<\/a>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed alignfull is-type-rich is-provider-buzzsprout wp-block-embed-buzzsprout wp-block-sage-buzzsprout-embed\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div id=\"buzzsprout-player-11126239\"><\/div><script src=\"https:\/\/www.buzzsprout.com\/1422304\/11126239-jonny-grubin-how-to-fail-successfully.js?container_id=buzzsprout-player-11126239&#038;player=small\"><\/script>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n<section class=\"wp-block-sage-podcast-networks\">\n\t<div class=\"container has-dark-background-color on-scroll-highlight__target\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"h4\">Listen to Sound Advice on:<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"unstyled\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li>\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/sound-advice-get-year-one-in-business-right\/id1544479344\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"660\" height=\"160\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/06\/2-US_UK_Apple_Podcasts_Listen_Badge_RGB.png\" class=\"attachment-medium size-medium\" alt=\"Listen on Apple Podcasts\" loading=\"lazy\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li>\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2yhPIOebSiBpEYek6q2GZJ?si=UWWTKrgIQ2OsUAlnHrzHTQ\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"330\" height=\"80\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/06\/spotify-podcast-badge-blk-grn-330x80-1.png\" class=\"attachment-medium size-medium\" alt=\"Listen on Spotify\" loading=\"lazy\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li>\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.google.com\/feed\/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xNDIyMzA0LnJzcw?sa=X&#038;ved=0CAMQ4aUDahcKEwios_fb8YnuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQBw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"76\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/06\/EN_Google_Podcasts_Badge_2x.png\" class=\"attachment-medium size-medium\" alt=\"Listen on Google Podcasts\" loading=\"lazy\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li>\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.stitcher.com\/show\/sound-advice-get-year-one-in-business-right\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"558\" height=\"167\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/06\/Stitcher_Listen_Badge_Color_Light_BG.png\" class=\"attachment-medium size-medium\" alt=\"Listen on Stitcher\" loading=\"lazy\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this digital age, it is of no surprise that one single tweet could inspire a multi-million pound business idea.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jonny Grubin was a 17-year-old student when he saw a tweet that made him want to create a solution to a stranger\u2019s problem. He saw an opportunity to create a business with other like-minded entrepreneurs from across the globe. However, things didn\u2019t exactly go to plan.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">After a failed attempt with no generated income, Jonny was still dreaming about making this idea a reality and after years of determination, the online sampling partner, SoPost, was born.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This episode will teach you how to preserve through unlikely setbacks, how to survive once you find success and how to use your copycats to fuel your motivation.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dive into the highlights below:<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#sopost\">SoPost: Creating powerful online sampling campaigns<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#sopost-is-different\">How is SoPost different to other sampling channels?<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#handful-of-strangers\">A handful of strangers, one tweet and an idea making no money<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#take-qualified-risks\">Take qualified risks and build trusting relationships<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#cold-contacting\">Cold-contacting and networking can eventually lead to big business deals<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#innovate-and-improve\">Both your customers and copycats can help you to innovate and improve your business<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#prioritise\">How to prioritise and keep yourself focused<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#surviving-success\">Surviving success and staff growth<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#catapult-your-business\">Identifying your own strengths and weakness can catapult your business<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#business-coach\">Finding a business coach<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#pull-the-plaster-off\">Don\u2019t wait around on decisions you know you\u2019re going to make\u2014 just pull the plaster off<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#time-to-re-consider\">If your business feels like a burden and the sacrifices are<\/a><a href=\"#time-to-reconsider\"> too high, then maybe it might be time to re-consider<\/a><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"#another-challenge\">There\u2019s always room for growth and a new challenge<\/a><\/p>\r\n<div class=\"single-cta\">\n\t<a\n\t\tclass=\"button button--primary gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\tdata-button-location=\"content_area\"\n\t\thref=\"#gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t>Download your free small business toolkit: a guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template so you can boss your business<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"sopost\">SoPost: Creating powerful online sampling campaigns<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jonny, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you? Where are you?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s so nice to be here. I am in our HQ in Newcastle today. It\u2019s raining a lot outside, but I\u2019m really excited to be here recording this podcast with you.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I feel like you are one of Newcastle\u2019s finest, because I always see SoPost and all these rankings like, fastest growing in the North East, Newcastle tech superstar. You are really flying the flag for tech in your local city.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We\u2019re definitely trying our best.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I grew up here. I know I don\u2019t sound like it, but I\u2019ve been really passionate about building something in Newcastle.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s nice to be making a name for ourselves, but there are a lot of other amazing companies here as well who should be waving the flag for the city.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Well, on that point, SoPost, a lot of listeners might not have heard of you because you are this clever infrastructure that powers the sampling campaigns of all these big brands.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But maybe tell us a little bit about what you do and what\u2019s made you such a fast growth superstar.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s funny that you say fast growth superstar, because we are coming up to our 10th birthday.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think if you were to just come across us as a new business today, you\u2019d be like, \u201cWow, they\u2019ve grown so quickly.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But you often forget that it\u2019s taken a decade to get to this point. Also, a few years of work prior to even launching as SoPost. Our business today is very different to the idea that I originally launched with.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, everything that we do is really focused on helping brands, retailers, and publishers run incredibly powerful product sampling campaigns online. But I\u2019m not going to lie, I never woke up one day and thought, \u201cOh, I know. I\u2019m going to tackle product sampling.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That wasn\u2019t something that I even knew about. We do a lot of work in the beauty space and I can\u2019t say I was particularly up to speed on what foundation was best, or even what fragrance sense I liked.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But today, we act as the platform that helps these brands and retailers run really powerful sampling campaigns online.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Essentially, we have a technology platform that makes it really easy for them to integrate sampling almost anywhere online, whether that\u2019s within their advertising, on platforms like Instagram and TikTok.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Maybe they\u2019re working with influencers, and you can swipe up on that influencer\u2019s story to request a sample for yourself. Or maybe it\u2019s through a piece of content on the brand\u2019s website or with a retailer that they\u2019re working with.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We have all of these different tools that make it really easy for sampling to plug in absolutely anywhere online. And then we power absolutely everything from that point onwards. The experience that a consumer has with the brand sampling program, that\u2019s all powered by our platform.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s a lot of clever work that we do on the data side. Not just collecting names and delivery information, but we have some really cool machine learning algorithms that will analyse an order and make sure that the experience you receive is the right experience for you and for the brand.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The physical distribution of samples is all taken care of by us as well. And then once the samples have been delivered, there\u2019s a ton of work that we do to measure the impact and hopefully, convert you to purchase if it\u2019s product that you\u2019ve liked.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The best way to think about us really is as the infrastructure for brands to run these powerful sampling campaigns online. It\u2019s all focused on helping them do so in a way that is much more relevant than conventional forms of sampling, it provides a lot of data capabilities and really deep insights and analytics that typically haven\u2019t been there in the past.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You asked about how you become a fast-growing business. I think one of the things for me was that I\u2019d spent years and years trying to make this company something else, and I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll get onto that origin story and what SoPost was originally intended to be.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think the thing for me was that when we started exploring the world of sampling, it seemed like fundamentally it was a really powerful form of marketing. What I wasn\u2019t trying to do was totally reinvent the wheel.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was coming out with a better way to do something that had been done for decades, if not centuries or millennia. That meant that starting from a really strong foundational base gave us an incredible, I guess, launch pad from which to try and build something.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because it\u2019s true that sampling used to be pretty hit and miss. You were talking about beauty there, but I remember being a teenager and going into Boots or whatever, and the sampling was just grabbing the free things, just scrubbing on the back of my hand. Or usually, even more disgusting, actually putting on the lipstick and walking out.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then obviously, the brand learns nothing about what you like or whether you are even the kind of person that would buy.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"sopost-is-different\">How is SoPost different to other sampling channels?<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Presumably, the idea that then they know who this potential customer could be, do you look at things like how likely they are to buy? Can you tell that much about someone who swipes up an Instagram ad?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s a lot of things that we do at different points of the journey. You are absolutely right to say when you walk into Boots, there\u2019s no science behind it. There\u2019s a ton of wastage. Frankly, the brand doesn\u2019t even know who you are or if you liked it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What we are really trying to do is just improve on that and make sure that instead of it just being a case of giving away as many samples as possible and hoping for the best, it\u2019s about saying actually, how do we flip that around and perhaps give away fewer samples, but make sure that each of them is performing and converting as strongly as possible?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We don\u2019t know everything about people and there\u2019s nothing creepy that we do on the data side. But obviously, being data enabled, really helps us out at certain points.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">First and foremost, it means that we can be much more confident that once somebody receives a sample from us, they\u2019re receiving it for the right reason. It\u2019s not just, Bex has walked into Boots and wants to try some new lipstick. It\u2019s actually, Bex is in the market for a new lipstick so let\u2019s send her one.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then once you\u2019ve received a sample, even if you haven\u2019t enjoyed the product, it\u2019s still valuable to know that. But we can collect a ton of feedback directly from consumers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There are some quantitative measurement that we can gather as well. We haven\u2019t fully closed the loop from trial to purchase, but the insights that we have are so much deeper than what is available through some of those more conventional channels.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"handful-of-strangers\">A handful of strangers, one tweet and an idea making no money \u00a0<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jonny, you hinted that basically, the origin story is quite interesting. It was all prompted by a tweet from Ben Way about wanting to get an item delivered to someone, he\u2019s dyslexic, but he doesn\u2019t know the address. And that you and like eight people from around the world came together.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then I\u2019m missing the bit in the middle.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What happened that took you from eight people around the world trying desperately to collaborate on this really groundbreaking and complicated bit of tech to Jonny\u2019s on his own, launching a business from scratch again?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think about that a lot, and part of me is amazed that we ever did that. You\u2019re probably in 2009 at this point. I was 17. Ben sent out a tweet and I was just like, \u201cThat\u2019s an amazing idea. I want to be involved with.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It turns out a number of other people had the same view as me. What happened with this group of us who had never even spoken on the phone before, let alone anything else, we decided we were going to get together and try to build this company.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The concept wasn\u2019t as advanced as my original idea for SoPost, but it was really all about allowing somebody\u2019s Twitter handle or email address to be used as a facilitator for physical deliveries.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The hypothesis that we had was that people didn\u2019t necessarily want others to know their delivery address, which also turned out to be wrong. Turns out if I\u2019m sending something to a friend, they don\u2019t particularly care if I have their address. It should be much more about the convenience and simplicity of it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Also, if I\u2019m buying something from someone on eBay, again, I trust that eBay seller. It\u2019s not about privacy. It\u2019s much more about, is it easy to use?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">This group of us have got together and decide, yes, we\u2019re going to start this thing and we are just going to take on the world and see what happens. We all got together. Everyone was doing different things.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think I was studying for my A levels at the time. We had a couple of guys who were running their own businesses, all from very different walks of life. We decided that we weren\u2019t going to raise any investment for it. We had some programmers who were doing the coding, we had some designers and so on and so forth.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When we launched, we launched a couple of weeks before I started at university. What we had done was we\u2019d formed partnerships with two pretty big delivery companies in the UK, who had adopted our concept of an addressless label.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What that meant was that you, as a consumer, could go to our website, you could purchase a delivery, but instead of giving you a label that had a postcode printed on there, it would just have a barcode. And because we\u2019d integrated directly into these delivery companies, they knew what to do with the item.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But for your purposes, it was just going to this anonymous address.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We launched that and it was amazing. We had so much coverage. There was so much excitement from consumers and the media, and retailers and everybody. But critically, no one was really using the product and we weren\u2019t making any money.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I remember at one point, we had some coverage multiple times over a weekend on BBC Click, which was their tech innovation show that went out globally on the BBC News channel. I think we sold about \u00a35 worth of deliveries.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Ouch.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah. It sucked. We decided not raise any money. I was just making the decision to drop out of university to go full time on this thing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From the outside, it probably looked like we were flying, but it was awful. We eventually at one point, printed out the entire user journey that you had to go through if you wanted to send or receive an item from us.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was like a 25-step process. Whilst we were trying to make the experience of sending or receiving items easier, it was so complicated to use our product.<\/p>\r\n<div class=\"single-cta\">\n\t<a\n\t\tclass=\"button button--primary gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\tdata-button-location=\"content_area\"\n\t\thref=\"#gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t>Download your free small business toolkit: a guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template so you can boss your business<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"take-qualified-risks\">Take qualified risks and build trusting relationships<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Was there a moment then when you all had to be like, \u201cGuys, we\u2019ve reached the end of the road?\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I wish it had been as straightforward as that. In hindsight, one of the issues was that you probably shouldn\u2019t start a business with eight people you\u2019ve never met before.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In that startup pre-launch phase, it was amazing. It really did feel like it was us against the world and we could achieve anything. Frankly, we secured these two deals with these massive delivery companies. One of them committed a huge amount of marketing budget to it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I look back on that and I think, wow, what an experience. How on earth did we do that? We had nothing that entitled us to that. We certainly weren\u2019t qualified to do any of this, but we made it happen.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think one of the issues was that once we launched and once, we realised that the thing that we had launched with needed to change, we hadn\u2019t built the perfect product on day one, that\u2019s where things started to become harder.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because we hadn\u2019t raised investment because nobody owned enough of a chunk of the business in their own right, there was no real leadership or direction. When we ran into problems, there wasn\u2019t really a way that we could get out of it very easily.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We had all these different factions forming, and then I was put in the CEO position. All along, I was just convinced in the power of the idea. I think I certainly turned a blind eye to it for so long because I was just in love with the idea and I was so emotionally invested in it that probably, for about two years, that was all I focused on. And honestly, we didn\u2019t get anywhere.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then a couple of people left the team and eventually I can\u2019t remember what triggered it exactly, but we threw in the towel and said, \u201cYou know what? The idea has legs, but this isn\u2019t something that we can tackle right here, right now.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I went from trying to lead this idea, to getting a job working in a frozen yogurt shop. In the first two weeks of doing that, I made more income than I had had in the year-and-a-half since dropping out of university.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was a lot less stressful as well, but I never let that idea get away from me. I went from frozen yogurt to working in a tech incubator\/accelerator where I was leading product. When I was there, it\u2019s going to sound cliche, but I couldn\u2019t stop thinking about this other idea. I\u2019d be in bars with friends, and I\u2019d be thinking about it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think I had a number of dreams about it, and I knew that I wanted to have another crack at it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That was why when I launched SoPost, I didn\u2019t spend a year building something to then figure out whether or not it was working. It was about very quickly launching something, iterating, and going from there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I had a great upbringing, but I wasn\u2019t in this privileged position where I could just afford to go and test something. I needed to pay my rent. I needed to pay my bills. And I\u2019m a great believer in taking qualified risks.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A lot of people often ask me, \u201cShould I just drop out of university and try this idea?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, would you go into a casino and put all your money on roulette?\u201d Maybe some people would. But for me, I don\u2019t think it\u2019s necessary to do that.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I was starting SoPost, I had these restrictions that I needed to have some income, but I was also so passionate about this idea. So when I started working at this accelerator, I made a deal with Simon, who had founded it, which was that he knew that I wanted to go off and do my own thing at some point.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">He said, \u201cLook, Jonny, come in, start full-time on our products and our focus. But as and when you have something that you want to pursue, as long as you\u2019re covering your cost within this business, spend a day a week doing your own thing. And then two days a week, and then three days a week.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Actually, in the last year that I was employed by that company, 95% of my time was spent building SoPost. Of course, they got an equity stake in exchange for it, which is touchwood, incredibly valuable today.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But what that meant for me was that I could spend a year getting SoPost to a certain point without having to worry about whether I was going to be able to pay the bills, about whether I had a roof over my head or not.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It meant that I could test things and get it to the point where I could then try to raise some investment and gradually build it up from there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s so lucky though, that you had this enlightened boss who was able to see that he was better off having you in a shorter term, but having you committed and then be able to let you pursue your venture, than it would\u2019ve been to be like, \u201cNo, you have to be 9 to 5. There\u2019s no time for anything else.\u201d That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah, I know. I\u2019m very grateful for that because I think he could have easily said, \u201cWell, no.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think it takes a lot of trust to let somebody do that. I think it was trust that went both ways. When I was working on their products, I treated that company like it was my own.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think there was one period where I worked 60 days straight, which maybe not particularly healthy. But even though it wasn\u2019t my name on the cap table, I still acted like it was my company. And I think he saw that.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even when I was spending my time trying to get SoPost up and running, I was still making sure that I was covering my costs within that business. Whilst it wasn\u2019t getting eight or nine or 10 hours a day out of me, the value, it was still coming through.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think the reality is, if he hadn\u2019t allowed me to develop a relationship like that, I wouldn\u2019t have been able to get SoPost up and running, certainly not in the timeframe that I had in the end.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"cold-contacting\">Cold-contacting and networking can eventually lead to big business deals<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then back to your Avon connection. You ended up going on this different path because of this amazing woman who saw potential in the tech.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then once you\u2019d completed that project, how did you get more customers? Did word just spread like wildfire and suddenly the whole beauty industry was like, \u201cMe, me, me\u201d? Or did you have to do something clever to get the word out?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Over time, word did spread. But I learned very early on, prior to SoPost, probably when I was 14, that stuff doesn\u2019t just happen.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I remember when I launched my first business and I expected to wake up the next day with just all these orders and it just didn\u2019t materialise. I think as good as anything you\u2019re doing is, you still need to make that traction happen. It\u2019s not just going to come.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think whilst I understand the tech side of things, as hard as it is to put yourself in a bucket, I describe myself as a commercially focused product guy. With that, I think I found myself in this really interesting position where I can talk in depth about the tech, and I can really build out roadmaps that are right for whoever I\u2019m trying to work with. But also, I can go out and sell.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the early days, I hate this word, but I guess I went out and hustled. I cold-emailed people. I went to networking events. I think every evening, I was out at a different event. Slowly but surely, I managed to get some traction.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But what I see a lot of people do today is, they\u2019ll go on LinkedIn and then they\u2019ll just blanket message 100 people with the same communication. That wasn\u2019t me.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I would go and say, okay, I want to try and get into Britvic. So I would find the right contact, I\u2019d personalise something, and I would pursue it, but in a friendly way. I would go to these people and say, \u201cHey, I\u2019m building this thing. I\u2019d love to come, and I\u2019d love to get some advice from you.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">There\u2019s that old adage that if you ask for money, you get advice. If you ask for advice, you get money. In my experience, it\u2019s true.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d go and meet these people in very senior positions at this company, really just to show them what I was building and to try to get their input. But more often than not, that would lead to pilots, which would then lead to bigger deals. Then others would see it and it would go from there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In the early days, it was very much, the business was coming off the back of me cold-contacting people or trying to find ways to meet people.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d see that a person I was trying to contact was going to an event. So I would just happen to be there and strike up a conversation with them, which was quite hard as well. I think it is very different today, but I\u2019m not naturally extroverted. It\u2019s something that I had to push myself to do, and I found it very uncomfortable. In fact, I still often do find that kind of thing uncomfortable.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then as time went on, it\u2019s different industry by industry, but certainly in my world, a lot of brands look at what their competitors are doing. Also, people move from brand to brand. But I think for me, there were certain points where I can see, okay, this was a big inflection point for the business on the sales side.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One of them was when we started working with Cadbury, and then the second was when we started working with Burberry. But really, it was just building on what we were doing, and building, and building, and building.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It was only until several years in that we actually went out and tried to set up a proper sales team. Based on my focus and experiences that I\u2019d had in the past, I wanted to make sure that we\u2019d nailed the product down first. Then I wanted to make sure that we had the best account management that we could have.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Only at that point, did I want to go out and start building out the sales infrastructure. On the basis that, if you\u2019ve got a great product and you\u2019ve got great account management, A, your customers are going to stick with you, but B, they\u2019re going to generate inbound business for you because others are going to see what they\u2019re doing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That was the strategy we took. For the most part, it\u2019s worked out really well, but I think for us, it has really been about that dedication to the customer. It\u2019s going to sound cliche, but going above and beyond and just making sure that we\u2019re delivering for them. And that we keep to our promises, really.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think even today, we\u2019re a company of 85 people today. Of course, I\u2019m not involved in every customer conversation. Some of them I\u2019ve had no interaction with at all, but they know that if there\u2019s a problem, they can come to me, and we\u2019ll fix it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Everyone in the company cares but knowing that there\u2019s somebody there who really cares about doing right by the customer first and foremost, rather than just trying to maximise the money you\u2019re making from them, knowing that you\u2019ve got me there, who my whole reputation\u2019s attached to SoPost, it makes a huge difference.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think it allows us to build relationships and do work that others might struggle to deliver on.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"innovate-and-improve\">Both your customers and copycats can help you to innovate and improve your business<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When it came to building out the technology, so figuring out what functionality to build in, what to prioritise, did all of that come from your customers?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Were you just basically asking them, \u201cWhat else would you like this to do?\u201d Was that the roadmap in terms of innovation?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I wish I could say yes, because we probably would\u2019ve got to where we should have been a lot faster than otherwise.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When we launched SoPost as the sampling business, the one thing that we did was allow brands to let their customers gift samples to their friends. That was all that we did for the first few years.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My view on this, was that gifting experience was where the real value in SoPost lay. But we actually had a lot of our customers coming to us and saying, \u201cHey, we loved what you do with the gifting, but we want to use your technology in other ways. We just want a form that we can stick on our website and let somebody enter their information to get a sample.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I was sat there thinking, \u201cWhat\u2019s the point in that? There\u2019s no value in it whatsoever.\u201d I very stubbornly, despite the request from our customers, despite my team saying we should go out and do this, very stubbornly I said, \u201cWe\u2019re not going to do that. That\u2019s not what our business is.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But when I eventually stepped back and looked at it objectively, it became quite clear that yes, there was value in that gifting, but that wasn\u2019t the main reason why brands were working with us.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The reason they were working with us was because it was a qualified sampling experience, but of course, you don\u2019t just need a recommendation to qualify somebody. There are other ways to do it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But also because of the benefits that the data provided and the analytics. Really, if you look at what we were doing with or without the gifting and compare it to sampling in store or with magazines or at events, there were so many additional benefits that we offered that they couldn\u2019t get elsewhere.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In that scenario, it was very much our customers asking for something and me stubbornly say no, we don\u2019t see the value in it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You\u2019re slamming the door in their faces.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. Yeah.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But no, I think we have to be very aware of what our customers are asking for. I think there have been a number of scenarios where we said, actually, we\u2019re not going to do that, even though customers are really asking for it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You know what? Most of the time they\u2019re right and we end up building it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I think you need to be careful not to fall into a position where you\u2019re just building things that a customer wants, or you\u2019re not just building things that one customer wants, that isn\u2019t going to provide value to your long-term strategic goals. Or isn\u2019t going to provide value to your other customers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d actually say the things that most impact our roadmap, aside from the customer requirements that are coming through, are firstly, our vision for this space. I very much do wake up and think about this stuff now.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think we see the world of sampling in a very different way, probably to anyone else on the planet. We\u2019ve got a very clear view of where we think it can go and what technology we need to build to get there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then the other thing which really does motivate us and drive us is seeing all the competition enter the market. Because when we started back in 2012, we were first to market. There was nobody else doing this.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Then really since the onset of the pandemic, because you haven\u2019t been able to sample in those traditional ways, we\u2019ve really seen a lot of people come and enter. There are a number of those competitors who I have a ton of respect for. I think that they\u2019re doing things in their own way, and whether I agree with their approach or not, there\u2019s a lot of mutual respect there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then you have others who come in and really just copy us, to the point where you go on their website and you\u2019ll see our assets on there, or they\u2019ve forgotten to take SoPost out of the terms and conditions.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You stop and think, \u201cHold on a second, these guys are just ripping us off and they\u2019re trying to benefit from decade\u2019s worth of work that we\u2019ve done to enter the market.\u201d What that does though, is it motivates us to keep innovating and to keep building, and really honestly push ourselves further with the development roadmap that we\u2019ve got.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I look at some of the functionality we have today, around, for example, being able to intelligently filter orders to the best experience for that consumer. That was something that we\u2019ve been thinking about for years and years and years, but we actually accelerated the development of it because we saw people come into the market and just try to compete in a way that we thought wasn\u2019t fair.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They were just trying to rip us off as opposed to doing their own thing. There are a number of features that we\u2019re going to be launching over the next year that are similar. We\u2019ve been thinking about them for a while.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">They\u2019re really going to change the way this space works completely.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But the reason we\u2019re launching them now, and the reason we hadn\u2019t launched them in the past is actually because it\u2019s just going to set that really clear distinction between us and those people who don\u2019t really have any innovative thoughts of their own and can\u2019t just come in and copy those things.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s really interesting to know that it\u2019s like the copycats, they put pressure on you. But it\u2019s positive pressure. It\u2019s pressure to actually keep excelling.<\/p>\r\n<div class=\"single-cta\">\n\t<a\n\t\tclass=\"button button--primary gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\tdata-button-location=\"content_area\"\n\t\thref=\"#gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t>Download your free small business toolkit: a guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template so you can boss your business<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"prioritise\">How to prioritise and keep yourself focused<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I wanted to know, so do you take yourself off in a dark room when you\u2019re thinking about what to focus on? How do you prioritise? How do you work out like, this month, we\u2019re going to do this?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because you mentioned how there can be distractions, and you\u2019d want to know that what you\u2019re working on is actually a value driver. And not something that it\u2019s going to send you off on some crazy tangent, but sometimes it must be hard to tell the difference.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s really difficult.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d say actually, as the business has grown, it becomes more difficult and not easier. In the early days, there was a team of five of us and it was very much me leading the product development. The feedback loops were so quick. We could go to a brand and test something and then rework it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whereas now, we constantly have activities running. I think we\u2019ve got 30 or so people in the product talk, 30 or so in the commercial log. Even just understanding what customers are looking for, I\u2019m not as connected to those conversations as I was when it was me leading all of those conversations.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d say a few things to that. One is, part of it is really about having this conviction that what we think about the space is right and we\u2019re going to build that out. But I\u2019d say for the most part, it\u2019s about really trying to ship early and often.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In that when I launched SoPost before the sampling, I didn\u2019t spend a year building something. It was a case of we hacked together something over the course of a few weeks, and tested and find that easiest possible way to test things. And that\u2019s what we do today.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When we launch a new market, this isn\u2019t specifically about a new product development, but when we launch a new market, we don\u2019t go into Australia, hire five people, and then try to build the business there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What we do is we test it from the UK. It\u2019s like, okay, we are going to find a way to prove out positively or negatively, whether this is a market that we should go into.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s only once we\u2019ve generated a little bit of traction from brands that we say okay, we know there\u2019s something here. Now, we\u2019re going to go and make that investment in the team.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think it\u2019s very similar on a lot of the product things. Sometimes it\u2019s a case of we\u2019ll go to a brand and say, \u201cHey, we\u2019re building this thing out. Do you want it?\u201d And if 10 of the brands say no, then we might kill it before we\u2019ve got very far down the development road.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the other hand, if we have five or six brands coming to us and saying, \u201cHey, we want to do something in this space,\u201d we know that the demand is there, and we know that we can build traction off it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">These two things contradict, but I think part of it is just about having the conviction that what you\u2019re trying to build is the right thing, even if your customers don\u2019t see it. And then on the flip side, it\u2019s really taking on board what they are saying and pivoting quickly, if you see that they are taking something up or not.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">And then I guess the other thing I\u2019d say is that internally, you really need to build a lot of communication channels. I\u2019m very lucky to be surrounded by an incredible group of people who get the business and are senior leaders on the product side. They get more than just the product.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Likewise, our senior leaders on the commercial side, they understand more than just the sales figures that sit behind this. Having that team who really can look in depth at these things and who I trust to come with the right insights and to figure out what we should be doing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It means that we can scale up and do a dozen different things at the same time and have more than just a hope. Have the knowledge that we are building in the right direction.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"surviving-success\">Surviving success and staff growth<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Jonny, I want to hear a bit about the terrifying consequences of success.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because I think when I first spoke to you, it was like 2017 or 20 18. SoPost had grown. It was more than 2000%. I remember seeing that and just thinking, how do you do that, in terms of how many new staff you must have had to hire, all your back-office functions?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s not sexy to talk about it, but how do you survive a leap that big? Can you share any of your learnings from that crazy time?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even in the last year, we grew from 30 or so people to 60 or so, and we\u2019re 85 today. The revenues have accelerated at a pretty astronomical rate as well.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s funny, because I remember not long after we raised our seed round of investment, I was sat in a board meeting. We were eight people at the time I think. I told my board, I said, \u201cHey, just to let you guys know, when we get to 20 people, you\u2019re going to need to replace me because I\u2019m not going to be the right person to lead the company at that size.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019ve only ever been in small businesses, and for me, a team of 20 people was huge.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The board said, \u201cJonny, thank you for letting us know, but we think you\u2019ll be fine.\u201d And today, we\u2019re a team of 85 people.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Now, I\u2019m sitting here thinking, gosh, when we get to 300 people, they\u2019re going to have to replace me. But they would probably say the same thing, which is, \u201cJonny, thank you for your concern, but we know you\u2019ll get there.\u201d<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think a lot of it is just about that. It\u2019s about learning with the business and really a commitment to your own development.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019d say in particular, that growth from 30 to 60 in a very short period of time was really hard for me, because you go from being at a size where you know everybody\u2019s name, you have personal relationships with people, to needing to put a lot of these back-office functions in.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So you need a proper HR department now. You need to think about processes and all this stuff that as an entrepreneur who\u2019s only ever started things, rather than grown things, it\u2019s all of those things that you hate and also, you just have no experience of.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That coupled with the pandemic not only had the business doubled in size, but I couldn\u2019t get to know the team in the way that we could in the past.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think one aspect of it is really surrounding yourself with the right people. Our CFO, he\u2019s been with us for, he\u2019s going to kick me because I\u2019m going to get it wrong, but for four or five years now. He joined us from Mediacom, one of the largest media groups in the country, where he was responsible for 1,500 people. He joined us when we were about 20 people.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But having someone there who has seen a bigger organisation and has been able to adapt to a fast-growing startup was incredibly valuable for me. Particularly when you start modeling out cash flows and P&amp;Ls, because I tell you this, having a wage bill of 80 people, again, it\u2019s very different to a wage bill of 15.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But I\u2019d say the thing that was probably the most valuable for me is, about a year ago, I got myself a leadership coach. Because whilst the business was growing, I recognised in myself that I wasn\u2019t developing at the pace that the business needed me to.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Getting a coach who could help, firstly, she could look at things objectively. She had no connection to the business other than being my coach. But she really helped me work through things. She helped me tackle assumptions that I had around what my role should be.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I found myself in a position where I felt like I was doing a lot of things that I thought the business needed me to be doing, but that I didn\u2019t enjoy doing and I wasn\u2019t particularly good at. She really helped me understand that actually, it\u2019s not a bad thing if I focus my efforts on the areas that I am great at. Or as she termed it, where my magic lies.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, that\u2019s been incredible, and it makes me less daunted now about going from 80 to 150 people, because what I do today is very different to what I did three years ago. I know that I can mold my role around my strengths and also selfishly, the things that I enjoy.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because I know that operationally, I\u2019m not that good. Actually, it\u2019s of no help to the business if I\u2019m trying to be operational and not being customer-facing and failing it at both things.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"catapult-your-business\">Identifying your own strengths and weakness can catapult your business<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Was it obvious to you the things that you were good at and the things that you weren\u2019t that good at though?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Because I can imagine that if you\u2019ve been doing that role for a long time and you\u2019ve learned so much and you\u2019re so competent at lots of things, it can be quite tricky to work out exactly what you need to jettison from your timetable.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Yeah. Well, I think it was the other way. I was jettisoning the things that I was good at, because I felt like I had an obligation to do the other things.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, and it might just be that I\u2019m lucky or unlucky in this respect, but the things that I\u2019m not very good at, it overlaps with the things that I don\u2019t enjoy doing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once Tia and I sat down and mapped out where I was spending my time, it was pretty clear to highlight what my strengths were and what my weaknesses were.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even today, I\u2019m still having to do a lot of stuff that frankly, I\u2019m not very good at and I don\u2019t enjoy doing. But because I\u2019ve acknowledged that they\u2019re not strengths and I don\u2019t feel bad about not being great at them, I don\u2019t feel the weight or the burden of it like I used to.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, that\u2019s been critical because I don\u2019t think you can grow a business at such a pace if you, as the leader, aren\u2019t developing yourself.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019ve seen so many other entrepreneurs who haven\u2019t grown up at the same rate, and it can be really crippling just in terms of the stress that you often feel yourself in there.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"business-coach\">Finding a business coach<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">How did you find your coach? Was she a recommendation? Did your board help you? Or were you Googling at three in the morning, help me?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She was actually one of our very first customers.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">She used to run digital marketing at a big beauty company. And then fast forward a few years, she left that career and she set up a coaching business.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For me, she was a perfect fit because also, I\u2019ve never had a therapist. I\u2019ve never had a coach. The idea of that, where you have to be completely vulnerable and open with somebody, it was difficult anyway.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But then also, when you are mid pandemic and you can\u2019t do this stuff in person, I needed somebody who I knew and trusted. So I went with her for that reason.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But actually a lot of my team work with her or her colleagues now. Not just for my benefit, but I think the business is doing better because Tia and her colleagues are helping us all figure out what our strengths are, and figure out how we develop in the direction that we want to.<\/p>\r\n<div class=\"single-cta\">\n\t<a\n\t\tclass=\"button button--primary gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\tdata-button-location=\"content_area\"\n\t\thref=\"#gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t>Download your free small business toolkit: a guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template so you can boss your business<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"pull-the-plaster-off\">Don\u2019t wait around on decisions you know you\u2019re going to make\u2014 just pull the plaster off<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you cast your mind back for me, Jonny, and you think about the first few years of the business, if you could go back and tell yourself, don\u2019t make that particular decision, is there a mistake that sticks in your mind that you would love to warn other startup entrepreneurs not to make?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is there just one real doozy?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Is there a mistake I would warn others not to make? Gosh, I\u2019ve made too many to count.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think I\u2019ve often been scared of making decisions. I think when I\u2019ve looked back on them, whether it\u2019s about, should we take the product in a certain direction or is this the right person for the team, I\u2019ve always known what decision I should have made.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But for various reasons, I delayed making it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I\u2019ve never regretted making any of those decisions. What I\u2019ve regretted is not making them sooner. I think that\u2019s it.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">If you know or if you feel like you know, just do it. Pull the plaster off.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s always going to hurt regardless of whether you do it now or in a month\u2019s time, but you\u2019ll be better off knowing.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Do you follow that advice now? Are you quite quick fire now on decisions? Or is this still an ongoing battle?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It\u2019s an ongoing battle, but I\u2019m trying.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"time-to-re-consider\">If you\u2019re business feels like a burden and the sacrifices are too high, then maybe it might be time to re-consider<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You dropped out of university to focus on the first iteration of the business that then became SoPost.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I want to know, do you feel like you\u2019ve made a lot of personal sacrifices to be successful at what you do? Or have you managed to have a balance throughout your career? Do you look back and think, oh, you know what I had to give up on X or Y to be here?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Well, I definitely did. But I think this idea of balance is a slightly flawed concept.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I was starting SoPost, I\u2019m not ashamed to say I overworked myself. I was working probably 12-hour days, seven days a week, on the regular.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That\u2019s definitely not something that you can do for an extended period of time, but I don\u2019t think I would\u2019ve got the business to where it needed to get to or get it to that next stage had I not made that commitment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The honest answer is yes, I have made sacrifices, but they\u2019re exactly the sacrifices that I wanted to make.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Today, I\u2019m traveling constantly, which makes it hard to fit in all the running I like to do. Sometimes it makes it hard to hold down relationships. I don\u2019t even keep fresh food in my fridge because I know it\u2019s going to go off.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Those are all sacrifices, but it\u2019s easy to sit back and moan about them and say, \u201cOh, I wish I could sleep in my own bed rather than on a plane tonight.\u201d But I stop and think about it and it\u2019s like, actually I\u2019d rather have what I\u2019ve got than the thing I\u2019m missing out on.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The reality is, particularly now, if I wanted to change any of that, it\u2019s all in my power. It\u2019s all in my control. But I think at the start, I never stopped and thought, hey, my friends have it better than me, because I was doing exactly what I wanted to be doing. I knew that in order to move forward, I had to make that commitment.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I think that\u2019s maybe something people should be asking themselves. If you are weighing up how invested in something you are, maybe the good test of that is whether it feels like a burden or not, whether you feel like you\u2019re missing out.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I was at home working late and my friends were out clubbing, I never felt like I wanted to be doing the other thing. Which maybe sounds really nerdy to say, but that\u2019s just the reality of it. I think if it was the other way, maybe that would\u2019ve been a sign to me that I should perhaps be doing something different.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You don\u2019t want to regret your choices.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Exactly. Yeah.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"another-challenge\">There\u2019s always room for growth and another challenge<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But you were always the startup guy.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Do you miss the cut and thrust of creating something new? Do you feel like at some point maybe you\u2019ll be wizened and gray, but maybe you\u2019ll be back with another startup?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Or is this challenge the right challenge now for you?<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Jonny Grubin:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I love building things. There\u2019s a lot that we still have to do with SoPost and I\u2019m not thinking about a time when I\u2019m not doing this. I think the position that I\u2019m in now is great because not only am I getting this new experience of growing and building something, but also, I\u2019m now able to start new things within the company.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">For example, a couple of months ago, I ran a pilot to see whether we could build out our own local delivery network or not. Part of that was actually me going out and hand-delivering items to understand how it works.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Even though we\u2019re this company with dozens of employees and multimillion-pound revenues, I\u2019m still able to test an experiment with things. In some ways it\u2019s better, because I\u2019ve got resources behind me now.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Whereas in the past, it was literally like, I had no investment, nobody around me. Just go and try to figure that out. I think I have the best of both worlds, but if and when the next thing comes along, I\u2019m 30, I can\u2019t imagine I\u2019m going to retire anytime soon.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bex Burn-Callander:<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I can\u2019t see that happening. There\u2019s just the energy just pouring into the screen. I just feel like you could do 50 million things at once.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Inspired by this small business story?<\/h2>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Wherever you\u2019re listening or watching, subscribe to\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/gb\/podcast\/sound-advice-get-year-one-in-business-right\/id1544479344?_gl=1*6o40wv*_ga*MjA5NDY4NjE4OC4xNjE0NzM4MTI4*_ga_N0V23L0VEC*MTYzMzUwOTU4NS4xOTYuMS4xNjMzNTA5NjA2LjA.\">Sound Advice on Apple iTunes<\/a>\u00a0here.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2yhPIOebSiBpEYek6q2GZJ?si=UWWTKrgIQ2OsUAlnHrzHTQ&amp;nd=1&amp;_gl=1*1h0trqy*_ga*MjA5NDY4NjE4OC4xNjE0NzM4MTI4*_ga_N0V23L0VEC*MTYzMzUwOTU4NS4xOTYuMS4xNjMzNTA5NzQ3LjA.\">We are also on Spotify<\/a>\u00a0and anywhere else you get your podcasts.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Join our community to share your insights and stories on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/sageireland\">Twitter @SageIreland<\/a>\u00a0using the hashtag #SoundAdvicePodcast, on Instagram\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/sageofficial\/channel\/?hl=en\">@SageOfficial<\/a>\u00a0or in the comments below!<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Want to know more about SoPost and Jonny Grubin?<\/h3>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can check out SoPost on their\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/sopost.com\/\">website<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/sopost\">Twitter<\/a>.<\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">You can also find Jonny on his\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/groob\">Twitter<\/a>.<\/p>\r\n\n<div class=\"single-cta gated-content\">\n\t<div class=\"single-cta__positioner on-scroll-highlight__target\">\n\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__wrapper has-dark-background-color\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"single-cta__title h3\">Small business toolkit <\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__description\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Get your free guide, business plan template and cash flow forecast template to help you manage your business and achieve your goals.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\t\t\t\thref=\"#gate-73c0a131-e4f3-485b-a6c6-62c451003a2f\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"single-cta__button button button--primary\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t>Download your free toolkit<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1215\" height=\"810\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/08\/YBCA_FY19_Intacct_V3_0338-1-1215x810.jpg\" class=\"single-cta__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/08\/YBCA_FY19_Intacct_V3_0338-1-1215x810.jpg 1215w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 33vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\r\n\n\n<div class=\"single-cta\">\n\t<div class=\"single-cta__positioner on-scroll-highlight__target\">\n\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__wrapper has-dark-background-color\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"single-cta__title h3\">Subscribe to the Sage Advice newsletter<\/h2>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"single-cta__description\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Join 1.5 million subscribers and get the best business admin strategies and tactics, as well as actionable advice to help your company thrive, in your inbox every month.<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\t\t\t\thref=\"#gate-53abbdcc-410c-4c8c-bf97-ca5c6982eebd\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"single-cta__button button button--primary\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t>Subscribe now<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"999\" height=\"666\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/04\/z.5E3A0481_All-Uses.jpg\" class=\"single-cta__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2021\/04\/z.5E3A0481_All-Uses.jpg 999w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 33vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n<section class=\"more-topics alignfull has-grey-light-background-color wp-block-sage-post-topics\">\n\t<div class=\"container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"row\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-12 col-lg-4\">\n\t\t\t\t<h3 class=\"more-topics__title h2\">Browse more topics from this article<\/h3>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-12 col-lg-8\">\n\t\t\t\t<ul class=\"post-tags__list\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"post-tags__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/tag\/sound-advice-podcast\/\" class=\"post-tags__link button button--secondary\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tSound Advice Podcast\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<li class=\"post-tags__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/tag\/startup-stories\/\" class=\"post-tags__link button button--secondary\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tStartup stories\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/li>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/ul>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n<div class=\"alignfull wp-block-sage-related-posts\">\n\t<section class=\"related-posts card-grid has-dark-background-color\">\n\t<div class=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"row\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"related-posts__heading related-posts__heading--featured h1\">Explore more wisdom<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t<div class=\"row related-posts__featured\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col card-grid__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<article\n\t\tclass=\"card-post related-post related-post-0 post-16742 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail hentry category-money-matters category-strategy-legal-operations tag-accounting-102 tag-bookkeeping tag-business-planning tag-cash-flow tag-financial-decisions tag-grow-business tag-startup-stories business_type-small-business business_type-accountants card-post--is-clickable\"\n>\n\t<div class=\"card-post__media-wrapper\">\n\t\t<figure class=\"card-post__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1215\" height=\"810\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/09\/GettyImages-1327235816-1215x810.jpg\" class=\"card-post__image\" alt=\"Working on business funding applications\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/09\/GettyImages-1327235816-684x384.jpg 684w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/09\/GettyImages-1327235816-768x512.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2023\/09\/GettyImages-1327235816-1215x810.jpg 1215w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 250px, (min-width: 30em) 100vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\t<\/div>\n\n\t<div class=\"card-post__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"card-post__label\">Recommended<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"card-post__meta\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"posted-on \"><time class=\"entry-date published\" datetime=\"2025-10-31T09:30:00+00:00\">31 October, 2025<\/time><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"reading-time\">18 min read<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t<p class=\"card-post__title h3\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"card-post__title-link\"\n\t\t\t\t\thref=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/business-loan-calculator\/\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\tBusiness loan calculator (with amortisation schedule)\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"card-post__description\">\n\t\t\t\tWith this business loan calculator, payments and costs are easy to assess at a glance. Read our guide for everything you need to know about business loans.\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t<\/article>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"row related-posts__non-featured\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-12\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"related-posts__heading related-posts__heading--more h4\">More on this Topic<\/h2>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-6 col-lg-3 card-grid__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<article\n\t\tclass=\"card-post related-post related-post-1 post-15854 post type-post status-publish format-audio has-post-thumbnail hentry category-growth-customers tag-entrepreneurship tag-grow-business tag-start-business tag-sound-advice-podcast tag-startup-stories post_format-post-format-audio business_type-small-business\"\n>\n\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\tclass=\"card-post__link\"\n\t\t\thref=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-turn-social-presence-into-business-growth-part-2-ash-jones\/?scroll=1\"\n\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t<figure class=\"card-post__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"684\" height=\"384\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep24-684x384.jpg\" class=\"card-post__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep24-684x384.jpg 684w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep24-768x432.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep24-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 250px, (min-width: 30em) 100vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"card-post__meta\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<svg role=\"presentation\" aria-hidden=\"true\" focusable=\"false\" width=\"24\" height=\"24\" class=\"card-post__meta-icon svg-icon\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" viewbox=\"0 0 24 24\"><path d=\"M9.75 1.5C8.793 1.5 8 2.293 8 3.25v8.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0 .243v4.38c0 .957.793 1.75 1.75 1.75h5.5c.957 0 1.75-.792 1.75-1.75v-4.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0-.243V3.25c0-.957-.792-1.75-1.75-1.75zm0 1.5h5.5c.147 0 .25.102.25.25V11h-6V3.25c0-.148.102-.25.25-.25m-4.012 7.989a.75.75 0 0 0-.739.761v4.5A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 9.749 21h2v2a.76.76 0 0 0 .216.537.74.74 0 0 0 .534.223.76.76 0 0 0 .535-.223.74.74 0 0 0 .216-.537v-2h2A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 20 16.25v-4.5a.76.76 0 0 0-.216-.537.74.74 0 0 0-.535-.223.75.75 0 0 0-.75.76v4.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25 3.25h-5.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25-3.25v-4.5a.755.755 0 0 0-.469-.707.8.8 0 0 0-.293-.055zM9.5 12.5h6v3.75c0 .147-.102.25-.25.25h-5.5a.24.24 0 0 1-.25-.25zm3 1a.997.997 0 0 0-1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1-1 .997.997 0 0 0-1-1\" \/><\/svg>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"posted-on \"><time class=\"entry-date published\" datetime=\"2024-12-23T07:00:00+00:00\">23 December, 2024<\/time><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"reading-time\">43 min read<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t<p class=\"card-post__title h5\">\n\t\t\tTurn social presence into business growth \u2013 Part 2\t\t<\/p>\n\n\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\n\t<\/article>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-6 col-lg-3 card-grid__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<article\n\t\tclass=\"card-post related-post related-post-2 post-15839 post type-post status-publish format-audio has-post-thumbnail hentry category-growth-customers tag-entrepreneurship tag-grow-business tag-start-business tag-sound-advice-podcast tag-startup-stories post_format-post-format-audio business_type-small-business\"\n>\n\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\tclass=\"card-post__link\"\n\t\t\thref=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-turn-social-presence-into-business-growth-part-1-alex-nicolaou\/?scroll=1\"\n\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t<figure class=\"card-post__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"684\" height=\"384\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep23-684x384.jpg\" class=\"card-post__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep23-684x384.jpg 684w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep23-768x432.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep23-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 250px, (min-width: 30em) 100vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"card-post__meta\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<svg role=\"presentation\" aria-hidden=\"true\" focusable=\"false\" width=\"24\" height=\"24\" class=\"card-post__meta-icon svg-icon\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" viewbox=\"0 0 24 24\"><path d=\"M9.75 1.5C8.793 1.5 8 2.293 8 3.25v8.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0 .243v4.38c0 .957.793 1.75 1.75 1.75h5.5c.957 0 1.75-.792 1.75-1.75v-4.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0-.243V3.25c0-.957-.792-1.75-1.75-1.75zm0 1.5h5.5c.147 0 .25.102.25.25V11h-6V3.25c0-.148.102-.25.25-.25m-4.012 7.989a.75.75 0 0 0-.739.761v4.5A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 9.749 21h2v2a.76.76 0 0 0 .216.537.74.74 0 0 0 .534.223.76.76 0 0 0 .535-.223.74.74 0 0 0 .216-.537v-2h2A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 20 16.25v-4.5a.76.76 0 0 0-.216-.537.74.74 0 0 0-.535-.223.75.75 0 0 0-.75.76v4.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25 3.25h-5.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25-3.25v-4.5a.755.755 0 0 0-.469-.707.8.8 0 0 0-.293-.055zM9.5 12.5h6v3.75c0 .147-.102.25-.25.25h-5.5a.24.24 0 0 1-.25-.25zm3 1a.997.997 0 0 0-1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1-1 .997.997 0 0 0-1-1\" \/><\/svg>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"posted-on \"><time class=\"entry-date published\" datetime=\"2024-12-16T08:00:00+00:00\">16 December, 2024<\/time><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"reading-time\">38 min read<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t<p class=\"card-post__title h5\">\n\t\t\tTurn social presence into business growth \u2013 Part 1\t\t<\/p>\n\n\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\n\t<\/article>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-6 col-lg-3 card-grid__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<article\n\t\tclass=\"card-post related-post related-post-3 post-15824 post type-post status-publish format-audio has-post-thumbnail hentry category-growth-customers tag-ai tag-entrepreneurship tag-grow-business tag-start-business tag-sound-advice-podcast tag-startup-stories post_format-post-format-audio business_type-small-business\"\n>\n\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\tclass=\"card-post__link\"\n\t\t\thref=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-using-ai-for-your-business-heather-murray\/?scroll=1\"\n\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t<figure class=\"card-post__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"684\" height=\"384\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep22-684x384.jpg\" class=\"card-post__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep22-684x384.jpg 684w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep22-768x432.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/12\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep22-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 250px, (min-width: 30em) 100vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"card-post__meta\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<svg role=\"presentation\" aria-hidden=\"true\" focusable=\"false\" width=\"24\" height=\"24\" class=\"card-post__meta-icon svg-icon\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" viewbox=\"0 0 24 24\"><path d=\"M9.75 1.5C8.793 1.5 8 2.293 8 3.25v8.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0 .243v4.38c0 .957.793 1.75 1.75 1.75h5.5c.957 0 1.75-.792 1.75-1.75v-4.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0-.243V3.25c0-.957-.792-1.75-1.75-1.75zm0 1.5h5.5c.147 0 .25.102.25.25V11h-6V3.25c0-.148.102-.25.25-.25m-4.012 7.989a.75.75 0 0 0-.739.761v4.5A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 9.749 21h2v2a.76.76 0 0 0 .216.537.74.74 0 0 0 .534.223.76.76 0 0 0 .535-.223.74.74 0 0 0 .216-.537v-2h2A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 20 16.25v-4.5a.76.76 0 0 0-.216-.537.74.74 0 0 0-.535-.223.75.75 0 0 0-.75.76v4.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25 3.25h-5.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25-3.25v-4.5a.755.755 0 0 0-.469-.707.8.8 0 0 0-.293-.055zM9.5 12.5h6v3.75c0 .147-.102.25-.25.25h-5.5a.24.24 0 0 1-.25-.25zm3 1a.997.997 0 0 0-1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1-1 .997.997 0 0 0-1-1\" \/><\/svg>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"posted-on \"><time class=\"entry-date published\" datetime=\"2024-12-09T08:00:00+00:00\">9 December, 2024<\/time><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"reading-time\">1 min read<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t<p class=\"card-post__title h5\">\n\t\t\tYou don\u2019t need to be a \u201ctechie\u201d to use AI for your business\t\t<\/p>\n\n\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\n\t<\/article>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"col col-6 col-lg-3 card-grid__item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<article\n\t\tclass=\"card-post related-post related-post-4 post-15785 post type-post status-publish format-audio has-post-thumbnail hentry category-growth-customers tag-grow-business tag-start-business tag-sound-advice-podcast tag-startup-stories post_format-post-format-audio business_type-small-business\"\n>\n\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\tclass=\"card-post__link\"\n\t\t\thref=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/sound-advice-discover-the-power-of-positive-company-culture-foong-ng\/?scroll=1\"\n\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t<figure class=\"card-post__media\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" width=\"684\" height=\"384\" src=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/11\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep21-684x384.jpg\" class=\"card-post__image\" alt=\"\" loading=\"lazy\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/11\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep21-684x384.jpg 684w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/11\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep21-768x432.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.sage.com\/en-ie\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/13\/2024\/11\/Sound-Advice_Blog_S3_Ep21-1440x810.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"auto, (min-width: 48em) 250px, (min-width: 30em) 100vw, 100vw\" \/>\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\n\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"card-post__meta\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<svg role=\"presentation\" aria-hidden=\"true\" focusable=\"false\" width=\"24\" height=\"24\" class=\"card-post__meta-icon svg-icon\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" viewbox=\"0 0 24 24\"><path d=\"M9.75 1.5C8.793 1.5 8 2.293 8 3.25v8.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0 .243v4.38c0 .957.793 1.75 1.75 1.75h5.5c.957 0 1.75-.792 1.75-1.75v-4.377a.8.8 0 0 0 0-.243V3.25c0-.957-.792-1.75-1.75-1.75zm0 1.5h5.5c.147 0 .25.102.25.25V11h-6V3.25c0-.148.102-.25.25-.25m-4.012 7.989a.75.75 0 0 0-.739.761v4.5A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 9.749 21h2v2a.76.76 0 0 0 .216.537.74.74 0 0 0 .534.223.76.76 0 0 0 .535-.223.74.74 0 0 0 .216-.537v-2h2A4.76 4.76 0 0 0 20 16.25v-4.5a.76.76 0 0 0-.216-.537.74.74 0 0 0-.535-.223.75.75 0 0 0-.75.76v4.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25 3.25h-5.5a3.24 3.24 0 0 1-3.25-3.25v-4.5a.755.755 0 0 0-.469-.707.8.8 0 0 0-.293-.055zM9.5 12.5h6v3.75c0 .147-.102.25-.25.25h-5.5a.24.24 0 0 1-.25-.25zm3 1a.997.997 0 0 0-1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1 1 .997.997 0 0 0 1-1 .997.997 0 0 0-1-1\" \/><\/svg>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"posted-on \"><time class=\"entry-date published\" datetime=\"2024-11-11T06:00:00+00:00\">11 November, 2024<\/time><\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"card-post__meta-text\"><span class=\"reading-time\">1 min read<\/span><\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t\t<p class=\"card-post__title h5\">\n\t\t\tDiscover the power of positive company culture\t\t<\/p>\n\n\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\n\t<\/article>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Discover how a tech entrepreneur took an idea, dropped out of uni to pursue it, and ended up creating multi-million-pound business 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